Author Topic: Rolling Perk Set  (Read 1575 times)

Offline Furious

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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2001, 03:36:00 AM »
It seems to me that in order for this scheme to work you would have to adjust the ENY and OBJ values for the planes as well as their cost.  In this way a higher cost plane could never rack up perks flying against lesser craft.

F.

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2001, 09:05:00 AM »
Funny this should be on top... i just posted another "RPS in sheep clothing" idea  :D

Offline Tac

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« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2001, 10:02:00 AM »
Would be nice if you cut the RPS into 10 day chunks instead of 2 day chunks so as to cover the whole tour. Maybe the last 10 day chunk should be cut into 2 day chunks, giving all planes free the last 2 days of the month.

BTW, I see the P-38 and F4U-1 are not in the list.. glad to see they are free all the time  :)

Offline lazs1

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« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2001, 10:55:00 AM »
desely... the matchups are good.   Where you are not getting it is in the fact that you are so tied to the unfun and unfair "allied vs axis" thing.   There is only a few slim slices of WWII where allied vs axis works out with any parity.   an anything goes with those 6-7 early war planes would get at least 4 of em being used all the time.   good as we got now and only in one small area... more variety everywhere.   Perk is not variety.

the areas need to all be in one arena because.... well... seperate arenas don't work.   Yu have "historical" matchups in the CT right now in a seperate arena and you ain't over there.  It aint fun.   Even the likes of you won't do it.   No... You need to have it all in one arena so that a person can decide and choose his fight seamlessly and rapidly knowing what is going on in all areas.   he would stay in contact with squadies the whole time if he wanted.   You can't do that with seperate arenas.   Why not just seperate sims?  

As for someone grabbing droptanks and a tempest to go fight early war planes?   No appologies for calling that person a "dipshit".

As for making the early war area a "furball" area by having it canyons...  Well... early war planes are by nature good at melees and they are very agile.   I believe most would love to wring them out in the canyons.   That would not stop someone from e fighting or from B&Z in the least tho.   they simply would have to do it in planes of parity.  Get it?

as for me being the "great and all knowing lazs.... If the others in question are like yourself then I suppose the expression "in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king" is the appropriate one soo....   I will make this simple so that even you can get it.... not enough people like an RPS of any kind... Not that many like allied vs axis (even the more brain ded among the advocates eventually "notice" how boring it is).   And nobody likes seperate arenas so far in any sim.  

I will say tho.. Perhaps we could have seperate arenas but they would have to have the ability to switch back and forth easily and to see any arena map from any other.
lazs

Offline bongo

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« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2001, 11:57:00 AM »
YESSSSSSSSSSSS  :cool:

Offline deSelys

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« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2001, 06:04:00 PM »
Dear Lazs,

I only agree with your last sentence. The ability to check what's happening in the other arenas and to communicate with the players in those arenas could be some kind of compromise between early/late war, day/night...

Unfortunately, I deeply disagree with the rest of your post (as usual): although I like the early and mid war planesets, I can't see where is the 'fun' to fight a spit with a hurricane or a zeke with a 109. First, because this is supposed to be a WWII flight simulator. For fantasy fights, there are some products like Crimson Skies. Second, because this prevents to get rid of the icons someday (how can you identify a friend from a foe then?). I know you like the long icon settings, but I think they make it too easy to keep sight of an opponent. I tried some fights in the arena you hate so much (CT...) without icons....well, it's damn hard to keep track of an opponent diving towards a forest or city background...meaning: it allows a slower plane to extend if his uber opponent doesn't stay close enough...no more rocket zoom climbs to fall back on a d2.0 lower con...Now this should suit you.

But the icons aren't the topic of this thread. You state that everybody would find the Allied/Axis planeset 'unfun and unfair'. I'm far from convinced.
Unfun: it's your opinion...
Unfair: grow up a bit...this isn't supposed to be fair. Fairness is for H2H. (Do you think that the players with 3-4 years experience are fair for the newbie who just signed in???). I don't mind to enter a fight against a better plane. I'll try to do my best anyway, and if I win, it's very rewarding...Btw, I'll tell you something really hush-hush: dieing isn't important here. It doesn't hurt. You can respawn immediately. You won't lose points. Maybe it will bruise your ego a bit, but with maturity you'll overcome it.....

Again, when the Allied/Axis Arena was launched in WarBirds, it became the main arena within days. (Of course, if you only fly the same plane model, it can get boring pretty quickly...but you would be limiting yourself then...)

My explanations for the lack of success of the CT are:
-no strat at all: self explaining
-no AWACS dar dots: people tend to be lazy. You, me, everybody seeks from time to time the eazy way. I understand that someone who discovered online flying with AH wouldn't like to lose the big help (~crutch) within the airborne dar dots. Coming from WB myself, it was easier for me. But once again, this debate belongs to another thread.
My point is: I believe the majority would prefer an Axis/Allied planeset. The WB experience convinced me. Period. Case closed.

This being said, I don't really care if the MA evolves into your vision of WWII flight sim, as long as HTC adapt the CT to 1.08 and insert a strat system into it. In the MA, you can get rid of the clouds, dogfight in canyons, chase each other in tunnels, pick up power-ups floating in mid air, that's not my business anymore...
The Rolling Perk Set used in CT (different from the one proposed here) worked just fine and gave us good matchups too!

2 last remarks:

1)
Tour 18: 100% of your kills and 100% of your deaths happened while you flew F4U-1C&D
Tour 19: 97% of your kills and 95% of your deaths happened while you flew F4U-1C&D
Tour 20: 100% of your kills and 100% of your deaths happened while you flew F4U-1C&D
Tour 21: 94% of your kills and 90% of your deaths happened while you flew F4U-1,-1C&D,-4

For someone who yells so loud for variety, you don't seem to make a big use of the whole planeset available here...Why should others do otherwise?

2)
If you feel entitled to call someone who doesn't cheat nor bend the rules of a game a 'dipshit', it is kinda revelating of you character...

This post was edited to correct my lousy english...

[ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
Current ID: Romanov

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

'I AM DID NOTHING WRONG' - Famous last forum words by legoman

Offline LUPO

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« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2001, 07:18:00 AM »
I strongly support this idea of RPS based upon perks. Thanks to Camo for pointing at this option.  :)
TO EVERYONE:
be open mind.
why degenerate an interesting topic, useful for the whole community in a stupid egoic querrel?
be productive.
The effort of PURPOSING something must be appreciate also if you disagree with the purpose expressed.
IMHO
------------
regards
LUPOhttp://members.tripod.com/cm_busc/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>VOTE RE2005 INTO THE FUTURE AH'S PLANESET  !!!CLICK-HERE!!!......
NO IDEA OF WHAT A RE2005 IS? CLICK HERE AS WELL TO DISCOVER!  

 

SOME GOOD REASONS TO VOTE IT TO BE ADDED INTO Aces High PLANESET:


-Its beautifull and exotic
-Its great for: turning, shooting, diving,  groundattacking
- Its the best Italian fighter, the only suited for the Main Arena
- Its the best turnfighter that served in the Luftwaffe as well  
- Its good for scenarios(Italy,Mediterranean,Germany, Ploesti)

Sponsored by: 1° Gruppo Caccia "Asso di Bastoni"

Offline deSelys

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« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2001, 09:23:00 AM »
Oops Lazs I owe you an apology     :o

I just re-read this whole thread, and I realized that it was Verm who stated that lots of players left  WB because of the neaw axis/allied arena, not you. So please disregard any (harsh) comment from me towards you on this topic.

For the rest, I'll hold my ground.

[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
Current ID: Romanov

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

'I AM DID NOTHING WRONG' - Famous last forum words by legoman

Offline lazs1

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« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2001, 09:49:00 AM »
desel... agreed..we will leave icons out of it.  You don't need to be wrong on that too.

As for this being a WWII sim... i don't think so.  I don't think it was meant to recreate WWII or even the airwar.   You admit that the WWII historical plane matchups were not fair or had any parity for most periods?   I believe that is what you are admiting anyway but... You then go on to claim that such lopsided nonparity is what?   good for the soul?   No... The fact that most pilots never seen an enemy their entire tour is historical too but you don't seem to advocate that.  

No... This is first and foremost a GAME.  In order to have fun people need to have an even chance going in.  They/we realize that others with more skill may still prevail but... not simply because they were given a better weapon.   No matter how many championships a football team wins they don't give em firearms to use in the next game as a reward.   The other teams watch what they did and learn from it.

Like the rest of the "historical" hypocrites you want to pick and choose your historical parameters.   Unfortunately that is the petard you guys end up hoisted on..  The CT is a perfect example.   You can't find 2 "historical" planeset guys that agree on anything past.... "Allied vs axis".  Hell... you can't find 2 guys dedicated to allied vs axis enough to.... even fly there.

This is a flight sim using WWII ac.  FM, damage and gunnery are all simulated.   We get to do what all those WWII pilots wanted to do all allong and match ourselves agains all the planes.  

As for my choice of the F4U.  I think it is a mediocre plane in the current set.   I would just as soon fly an F4f but only in an early war setting.   The F4U is very average in K/D and, against the 4 most popular planes in the arena, far inferior.  Still... IMO, it allows me to engage the largest amount of planes in the arena.   I can fight somewhat with just about anything.   I don't have the best chance but I'm doing ok and it gives me a better shot at variety of fights.
lazs

Offline deSelys

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« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2001, 11:19:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs1:
desel... agreed..we will leave icons out of it.  You don't need to be wrong on that too.
This is why no constructive discussion is possible with you...

   
Quote
...The fact that most pilots never seen an enemy their entire tour is historical too...
Now you're rewriting history...I would like to see your 'sources'...

   
Quote
No... This is first and foremost a GAME.  In order to have fun people need to have an even chance going in.  They/we realize that others with more skill may still prevail but... not simply because they were given a better weapon.   No matter how many championships a football team wins they don't give em firearms to use in the next game as a reward.   The other teams watch what they did and learn from it.
You have access to perk planes too, if I'm right. It's your choice not to use them (oops you used the F4U-4 this tour...were you drunk that evening?). Don't blame the world then.
Besides, when a football team is winning often, money comes in, allowing to 'buy' better players... (firearms   :rolleyes: ).
 
Btw, you have a positive K/D against perk planes those last tours...so why the whine?

   
Quote
Like the rest of the "historical" hypocrites you want to pick and choose your historical parameters.   Unfortunately that is the petard you guys end up hoisted on..  The CT is a perfect example.   You can't find 2 "historical" planeset guys that agree on anything past.... "Allied vs axis".  Hell... you can't find 2 guys dedicated to allied vs axis enough to.... even fly there.
Completely wrong and irrelevant. You never even logged into the CT. Your opinion is worthless on that matter.

   
Quote
As for my choice of the F4U.  I think it is a mediocre plane in the current set.   I would just as soon fly an F4f but only in an early war setting.   The F4U is very average in K/D and, against the 4 most popular planes in the arena, far inferior.  Still... IMO, it allows me to engage the largest amount of planes in the arena.   I can fight somewhat with just about anything.   I don't have the best chance but I'm doing ok and it gives me a better shot at variety of fights.
Read my post again. I never accused you or someone else to use exclusively some 'uber' plane...I just pointed out that you don't contribute a single bit to the variety you're asking about. The F4U is a commonly used plane in the arena....

Now I'll shut up whatever your answer may be, because this could go on forever....

See you in another thread,

[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
Current ID: Romanov

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

'I AM DID NOTHING WRONG' - Famous last forum words by legoman

Offline lazs1

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« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2001, 08:21:00 AM »
desel... why do you constantly bring my stats into this?   They have no bearing on this discussion.   How well i do against perk rides is not the issue.   I have a positive against every plane I believe..  They are not hard to avoid.... just moronic and annoying and unfair.  Better you should see how well perk rides do against other rides as a whole eh?  But....

let's look at some stats since you are so fond of that...   You are trying to say that the rolling perk set would be "fun" are you not?   I point out the unfairness of it and claim that it would be unfun so....

I have looked at your "stats" and come to the conclussion that.... You haven't a clue as to what is "fun" for most people.    You were up for 12 and a half hours to get 34 Kills!    Your kill per time is 0.0008!!  A thrilling sortie for you is flying a complete sortie (and long ones at that) to get..... half a kill!   Don't get me wrong... I'm not talking about skill..  I'm talking about style.   A very unfun and anal style.  

Now, I contend that most would find your brand of hiding from fights more than a triffle boring.  So why do you even care about "historical" matchups or, matchups of any kind since you work so hard to avoid matchups of any kind?   Why aren't yu in the CT?   Your penchant for doing nothing seems ideally matched to that arena.

Oh.. and they don't give football players firearms if they win a lot.   Money and skill is not a good analodgy.   Many in AH have money and skill... they can buy the best computer system and have a lot of natural ability, that is fine with me.   This is a game tho and most have only a limited amounnt of time to play.   they want a level playing field when they log on.   Newbies don't want an even steeper learning curve or.... they leave.   I would rather you were unhappy than a bunch of newbies passing up the game.   Bet HTC feels the same.
lazs

Offline moose

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« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2001, 08:28:00 AM »
lazs
Quote
...The fact that most pilots never seen an enemy their entire tour is historical too...

deselys
Quote
Now you're rewriting history...I would like to see your 'sources'...


Actually, this is a well known fact that most fighter pilots didn't see much enemy action.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure one of the history people will stick their head in here and lay down the truth.

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: moose ]
<----ASSASSINS---->

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2001, 08:30:00 AM »
In Johnson's book Thunderbolt! he mentions  not seeing an enemy fighter over a period of 2 months.

SKurj

Offline deSelys

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« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2001, 10:30:00 AM »
To Moose and Skurj,

I haven't any sources with figures about it, but I think we should take the whole war into account for each country. The following periods were particularly active for the fighter pilots of the following corps:

France Armée de l'air 1940
RAF 1939-1941
LW western front 1939-1941, 1944-1945 (they were even bounced by Allied planes during training inthe last months...)
LW eastern front
...

Of course, Allied pilots flying over Europe after D-Day, and even more after Operation Bodenplatte have seen less action than their predecessors: the LW was dying while the numbers of Allied fighters was overwhelming...

I am interested to see the figures too,
Current ID: Romanov

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Offline BlauK

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« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2001, 04:16:00 AM »
Originally posted by lazs1:
desel... why do you constantly bring my stats into this?

He was saying that while YOU are calling for variety in plane match-ups, you only seem to fly one type yourself. THAT was the point.


Better you should see how well perk rides do against other rides as a whole eh?

People seem to fly perk rides more carefully, trying to stay alive and not to lose the points. That is great IMO. But that is not your "style".

That is why it would be grerat to have al planes perked a bit and thus adding some risk to plane losses.


You haven't a clue as to what is "fun" for most people. Your kill per time is 0.0008!!

Ahh.. now I get it. The GOD here says that high kills per time = FUN.

Low kills per time dont mean hiding from fights. More often it means avoiding HOs and collisions and flying more difficult and demanding planes, which for many IS fun. Most often High kills per time also means high death count, HOs, collisions... and spoiling the FUN from others!

My kills per time is 0.0009 and I am enjoying myself a lot at AH. If it was a lot higher, my death count would also be much higher. THAT would NOT be fun at all. HO's and collisions are a long way from fun... IMO. In Quake they are great fun, I guess.

...A very unfun and anal style.

Really catfood... crawl back to your style hole to "ANALyze" your own style.


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