B-25 Questions

[Toad]

Hi all,

As I mentioned in Beefcake's topic about modeling the B-25, I have a great source of "anecdotal" information about the B-25 and how it was used in New Guinea.

So, allow me to introduce my father:  

The next post will be from "Panther", who flew with the 345th Air Apaches, instructed a long time in the B-25, was one of the founding instructors of the USAF instrument school at Barksdale AFB (those of you who know what AFM 51-37 is....he wrote a lot of the first version), moved on to XO of an F-86D squadron at McGuire and then into the ADC command structure.

So, if you've got questions about the -25, I'm sure he'll be glad to address them. He's also got some great stories!

[Panther]

Hello!

The previous post is a fair outline.

If you have any questions, fire away.

I started in the B-25 in Tullahoma, Tennessee in July of '43 and was still flying it at McGuire in 1954. At McGuire we used it as an instrument trainer and radar operator training while I was in F-86's.

[Westy]

Hi Panther! Very nice to 'see' you here.

 Was wondering if the squadrons you flew with ever used  the 75mm equipped B-25 and if so what it was like, so far as damage done to a target, accuracy of the weapon and if it was an unweildy beast or a very good weapon to use?
 
 -Westy

[funked]

Hi Mr. Panther.  

I have some flying questions and some armament questions.

The flying question is about the aerobatic capabilities of the B-25.  Did it have to be flown pretty much straight and level or could it be hot-dogged a little?  If the latter, what kind of maneuvers were permissible?  Was maneuvering limited by the airframe, the unseated crewmen, or both?

The armament question is about external armament.  I have seen some photos of B-25's with external bomb racks on the wings, and an external torpedo rack on the fuselage.  Was this stuff ever used to your knowledge?

Thanks a lot for visiting us, sir!

<Salute>



------------------
Mike "FunkedUp" Waltz
Aces High Instructor Corps

Squadron Leader, 308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF

 http://www.raf303.org/308

[danish]

Hello Mr Panther ;=)
No questions (dont know squat about buffs), just want to bid you wellcome.Nice initiative!

danish

[popeye]

Hello Panther,

Welcome to AH, and thanks for taking the time to join the discussion.

Lot's of <cough> discussion here about bombsight accuracy.  Can you give us a sense of the kinds of targets that would be selected, and the altitudes, and ordinance used effectively in level bombing with a Norden bombsight?

Was the B-25 used for dive bombing?  If so, what kind of sight and ordinance was used?  What kinds of targets would be selected for dive bombing?

Also, what was your experience with rockets?  Accuracy?  Range?  Effective against what kind of targets?

Thanks in advance.

popeye

[Wanker]

Hello Panther! Thanks for taking the time to answer some of our questions. Here are mine:

1. How much did the parafrag bomb weigh, and how many did a typical B-25 carry on a typical mission? Were they effective against hard targets, or just humans?

2. Were 25's used to skip bomb ships? If so, what was the typical ordnance during a skip bombing mission.

3. At what range(in yards) were the gunners trained to start firing at an incoming enemy interceptor? At what range did they start seeing realistically effective hits?

4. What was the most common variant of the B-25 used out in the Pacific theater?

Thank you, sir! The B-25H is my favorite WW2 bird, can't wait to be able to fly it in Aces high.

------------------
banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"

[Panther]

 

Originally posted by Westy:
Hi Panther! Very nice to 'see' you here.

 Was wondering if the squadrons you flew with ever used  the 75mm equipped B-25 and if so what it was like, so far as damage done to a target, accuracy of the weapon and if it was an unweildy beast or a very good weapon to use?
 
 -Westy

Lt. Charles Knight and I flew a B-25H from Savannah, Ga. to Calif. and they took the guns and turret off to reduce the weight so we could fly it to Hawaii--It was a 11 1/2 hour flight.  The put the guns back on and we flew across the Pacific to Australia and then into New Guinea. Lt Knight and I separated when we arrived in New Guinea.  He went to the 498th Sq. that had the B-25H's.  He later lost his life on a weather rec mission.  They found the plane in the jungle after the war.  I went to the 501st Sq. that had the B-25 C & D aircraft that were modified for strafing.

The B-25H had a Christmas tree sight that made estimating the distance to the target difficult.  However, they could fire 21 rounds starting at 6000 yards from the target.  They were effective against shipping since it was a strafing run with a low angle of attack. The plane was right on the top of the water and the ship can't get away. Water line hits were very effective and a few would sink a freighter.  The cannon fire did slow the airplane down appreciatively.  You could lose about 8 to 10 mph for each shot.

[Panther]

The B-25 was highly maneuverable.  Lt. Kasten engaged a Jap fighter in a dog fight and shot him down.  The Russians who used many B-25's often did slow rolls with them.

We did not use external racks. Nor did we carry torpedoes.  Strafing runs over airfields were made with parafrag bombs which were every effective in damaging aircraft on the ground.  Attacks on shipping were made with 500 lb. bombs with a delayed fuse.

[Panther]

The B-25 was never used for dive bombing.
Whenever medium altitude missions were conducted the lead aircraft used a bombardier with a Norden bombsight.  The rest of the squadron dropped when he dropped.  Only a few aircraft in the squadron even had a place for the bombardier as most B-25 were modified for strafing in our bomb group.  Medium was from 5 to 10 K, Usually used 100 and 500 lb bombs against fixed targets. Our bomb group never used rockets.

The parafrag bombs weighed 20lbs. and were used primarily against aircraft on the ground.  Skip bombs weighed 500 lb and were used against shipping.

Gunners started firing at about 600 yards range.  Aircraft could be hit at that range.

3 squadrons had B-25 C & D aircraft the othe sqdn. had the B-25 H. The B-25 J didn't arrive until the 345th was at Biak Island in August '43.

[daddog]

Hello Mr. Pather sir!  

Very pleased to meet you! Welcome to the Aces High BB, it is a pleasure to have you here. If my father were alive I am sure he would enjoy this as much as I. He worked on the P-38 during the war at plant in L.A.

The B-25 is my favorite buff in the world of Online flight sims.  

Several of the questions I would have asked have been, so I will just say thanks for taking the time to post and answer our questions.



------------------
daddog C.O.
332nd Flying Mongrels
Where men become friends and friends become brothers.

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Wow! 6000 yds? Out of curiosity since you were low level could you "see" the amount of drop they had at that range? Was it dramatically below your gunsight or did your first ranging shot usually come in fairly close to the angle you fired?

Also- I am curios as too how the B-25 handled Hi- speeds. At very hi speeds what did the plane handle like, was there a feeling that it was structurally unsound above a certain speed? Notably our B-26b here in AH has a definite limit at where it loses wings and breaks apart, the warning comes quickly around 300 mph IAS and it usually breaks around 350-400 IAS. did you ever experience the B-25 at these speeds?

Thank you for coming sir, we all appreciate your replies very much!

[funked]

Thank you Mr. Panther, I really appreciate it.  

[Panther]

Sorrow,

My squadron didn't fly the H model, and although I flew one from the States I never fired the gun. Some of my buddies did fly in the 498th (Bats Out Of Hell) that had the H.  The sight was just like a rifle sight and you used the rear horizontal elevation bars to adjust for range. The maximum range on the sight was 6000 yards. They didn't wait for the perfect shot. They just got down on the deck and shot their way straight in to the target.

I don't remember the redline airspeed on the B-25 but I am sure I never went past it. When we attacked airfields, we came in full throttle, 44" of MP and 2600 RPM. We'd come across the airfield tree stop high in a line abreast formation at 250-300 mph. When you're all dropping parafrags you don't want to be lagging behind!

The B-25 handled well at these speeds and did not have stiff controls. I don't remember anyone talking about going faster than 300. The airplane didn't shake at this speed and I never heard of anyone having structural failure.

[Lugnut]

FWIW, my dad was stationed in India, and later Tinian, working on B-29s and such. He remembers a H that they withdrew out of frontline service, because of the 75mm cannon. Every time they used it, it would pop a bunch of rivets out of the fuse and wings, essentially shaking it apart over time, till it wasn't fir for frontline service.

Nevertheless, they stripped it down and used it as a hack, and the fighter pukes would often use it in mock dogfights against P40s, where it faired quite well for its size.

ex-lug

[This message has been edited by Lugnut (edited 04-20-2000).]