Author Topic: Bet with a teacher  (Read 2871 times)

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2009, 11:04:26 AM »


Needs a ratio 'min effort:max benefit' or the minimum effort may produce minimum results. 'Prefered alternative should require minimum effort' is hardly a philosophy to garner prospects!

Also, get two bottles and skip the razor, who cares about morning ablutions when you're double as drunk?

In my opinion only, of course.



That was the point. The cost/benefit analysis is all about the ratio of bang per unit buck. Yet here, at least in the not too distant past (it really has changed since Mulally came in), what I usually see is that we taint the analysis by manipulating the objective such that we convince ourselves to do the easiest thing.

As for the razor, on my first real engineering job - wind tunnel test at NASA Ames - after I screwed something up, one of the tunnel mechanics counselled me thus, because he knew I felt bad, "go home, drink a quart of vodka, and slit your throat with a straight razor."

I always like to return the favor to the young guys just starting out. 
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2009, 11:08:43 AM »
I love when IT goes off on a power trip.  Steam coming out the ears and all.  :rolleyes:

HR is just a tad lower in standing than IT in my eyes though, so good point mentioning that there is worse out there :D

-----------------------

A lot of highly paid people in computer security got started just like your talking about OP.  Its a risk but I've always held that it is easier to ask forgiveness than it is permission.

HR is truly evil. I know. My wife is an HR manager at a supplier. Here at Ford, the main problem with IT is that they forget they're the tail, not the dog. We don't sell IT systems.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2009, 11:39:08 AM »
That was the point. The cost/benefit analysis is all about the ratio of bang per unit buck. Yet here, at least in the not too distant past (it really has changed since Mulally came in), what I usually see is that we taint the analysis by manipulating the objective such that we convince ourselves to do the easiest thing.

As for the razor, on my first real engineering job - wind tunnel test at NASA Ames - after I screwed something up, one of the tunnel mechanics counselled me thus, because he knew I felt bad, "go home, drink a quart of vodka, and slit your throat with a straight razor."

I always like to return the favor to the young guys just starting out.  

 :D
Fair enough! I think if serenity was going to do himself he would be better off nose diving a one of his planes into a forrest. Somehow i don't think he's quite that sick of living yet.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2009, 08:37:29 PM »
HR is truly evil. I know. My wife is an HR manager at a supplier. Here at Ford, the main problem with IT is that they forget they're the tail, not the dog. We don't sell IT systems.

They're more like the central nervous systems. Most companies these days are heavily reliant on their IT infrastructure, email, phones, automated systems etc. So when some smartass decides he has the right to surf where he wants, and goes and bypasses the corporate security - letting in some sort of malware that takes your systems offline - maybe you should reconsider what they're trying to do for you.

Most companies I deal with can tell you exactly how much they're losing if their systems go down. I doubt that ford wants to be losing any more than it already is ;)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2009, 11:35:52 PM »
They're more like the central nervous systems. Most companies these days are heavily reliant on their IT infrastructure, email, phones, automated systems etc. So when some smartass decides he has the right to surf where he wants, and goes and bypasses the corporate security - letting in some sort of malware that takes your systems offline - maybe you should reconsider what they're trying to do for you.

Most companies I deal with can tell you exactly how much they're losing if their systems go down. I doubt that ford wants to be losing any more than it already is ;)

It has been my experience that if you sold an IT guy for what he thinks he's worth, you'd be a millionare but in reality if you sold an IT guy for what he's really worth, you'd owe the other guy money.

ack-ack
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Offline bcadoo

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2009, 12:43:31 AM »
It has been my experience that if you sold an IT guy for what he thinks he's worth, you'd be a millionare but in reality if you sold an IT guy for what he's really worth, you'd owe the other guy money.

ack-ack

Maybe you haven't been around any quality IT people then.  You can't pay the good ones enough.  Period.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2009, 03:57:13 AM »
It has been my experience that if you sold an IT guy for what he thinks he's worth, you'd be a millionare but in reality if you sold an IT guy for what he's really worth, you'd owe the other guy money.

ack-ack

It's like any industry, there's a hugely variable range of skill sets. A lot of people enter IT because they think it's easy money. Problem is the demand outweighs the supply (the skilled supply that is). So there's a huge amount of really sucky IT people out there that hop from job to job. I encounter them all the time and are continually surprised at how these people manage to land and keep jobs for more than a week.

Unfortunately people pay more to get the truely skilled people, that in turn drives the wages up, which in turns sucks in the dweebs looking for easy money.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2009, 05:20:54 AM »
Maybe you haven't been around any quality IT people then.  You can't pay the good ones enough.  Period.

Oh, I've been around good ones, it's just been my experience within my particular industry that most IT guys have an over-inflated view of self worth.


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Serenity

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2009, 11:04:39 PM »
Did you see the post a few up where I stated we've done dozen of schools, and the one further up where the firewalls to do this can be had for <$1000?

See serenity, you should focus on your schoolwork, in particular reading and reading comprehension skills.

The point stands that you have NEVER dealt with the public school system in my state, and I would seriously doubt there are many schools in more dire straights than we are. We just lost several weeks of school because the state cannot afford to pay the teachers.

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2009, 08:53:26 AM »
They're more like the central nervous systems. Most companies these days are heavily reliant on their IT infrastructure, email, phones, automated systems etc. So when some smartass decides he has the right to surf where he wants, and goes and bypasses the corporate security - letting in some sort of malware that takes your systems offline - maybe you should reconsider what they're trying to do for you.

Most companies I deal with can tell you exactly how much they're losing if their systems go down. I doubt that ford wants to be losing any more than it already is ;)

Yes, it is true that information largely flows via IT and that one errant clown can ruin your whole corporate day. The dog analogy is till appropriate, though in terms of the overall business picture. Our end goal is to produce and sell cars profitably. IT must be aligned/subservient to that goal.

As for the right/wrong of it, I think that argument a bit silly. I mean, a corporation employs you under the terms of a contract. That contract is entered into by the consent of both parties. Thus, if you violate the mutually agreed terms of the deal by e.g., surfing the Dudes with Boobs site during work hours and with company assets, you are, by the terms of the contract, subject to disciplinary action. If you don't like that, the evil arm (HR) will usually tell you, in so many words, you can get the Bal-zac.

Hey, we had a surprise $2B profit in Q2. THe ship has been righted. We're making higher quality, better products than ever. Best of all, we didn't suckle the BadMama Obama's portly government teat (other than DOE monies available for research work, heh-heh). GM and Chrysler fell off a cliff after Cash for Clunkers expired (predicted it). We only dropped 5%. Meanwhile, everyone worries, "how can you be competitive now the GM has erased so much debt?".

To that I point out 3 things:

1. we recapitalized before the GM and Fi-Chry "screw the senior creditors with help from Uncle Sucker/pay off the big Obama campaign donor union in an act that, in a sensible era, would be equivalent of Teapot Dome" deal, retiring over $10B in debt via a debt-for-equity swap.
2. THe government has NEVER been able to compete well with a private-sector enterprise. Mark my words: GM will soon (3-5 year PD pipeline, typically) be turning out, by dint of the fact that they've lost creative control to a "czar", cars specifed by politicians (people who don't know jack about cars) for constituencies that lack the ability to pay good money (read, loser leftists who can't purchase much without a subsidy). 
3. Our product pipeline has some pretty exciting stuff coming. The next big hit will be our small car intros. All will be platform-common with Europe. Anyone who has had the pleasure of driving an FoE Focus RS or Fiesta knows that I'm talking good product there.

Note: my views do not represent the views of Ford Motor Company or it's shareholders - NECESSARILY.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2009, 04:53:46 PM »
The point stands that you have NEVER dealt with the public school system in my state, and I would seriously doubt there are many schools in more dire straights than we are. We just lost several weeks of school because the state cannot afford to pay the teachers.

Public schools in NZ aren't exactly that hot either. However, in any case you've never dealt (ie implimented, audited, managed or configured) with ANY schools IT system, hawaiian or otherwise have you?

Offline Serenity

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2009, 06:00:41 AM »
Public schools in NZ aren't exactly that hot either. However, in any case you've never dealt (ie implimented, audited, managed or configured) with ANY schools IT system, hawaiian or otherwise have you?

No sir, I have not, hence my not claiming to be an expert in the field...  :rolleyes:

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Bet with a teacher
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2009, 08:57:01 AM »
Hot damn, I got away with that screed. Viva the argument IT versus Rest of World!
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.