Which would win in a 1000m duel, Tiger or Panther?

[pzvg]

Not enough data;
nose to nose or at angle? (panther has faster traverse)
crew quality?
what ammo? (that's just nitpicking)
In truth, I think they already answered this one at APG in 46-47, the answer was the one that fired first.

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[YankeeStation]

Well in case of the Tiger-Panther stand-off I'd say that the panther would come out slightly better but that changes if you take the later enhanced tigers (Late Tiger E) which had extra armour and some minor gun updates, the front armour became even thicker on this model so I'd say that the Tiger might have an slight advantage although it still lags behind a bit in the penetration tables. By the way, german tank veterans often prefer the tiger despite it being more cumbersome and underpowered. The allied soldiers feared the tiger more generally also. Maybe because of the myths around the 88?

Bies

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Oh Jeez, if I only had a rearview mirror!

Bies

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by YankeeStation:
Well in case of the Tiger-Panther stand-off I'd say that the panther would come out slightly better but that changes if you take the later enhanced tigers (Late Tiger E) which had extra armour and some minor gun updates, the front armour became even thicker on this model so I'd say that the Tiger might have an slight advantage although it still lags behind a bit in the penetration tables. By the way, german tank veterans often prefer the tiger despite it being more cumbersome and underpowered. The allied soldiers feared the tiger more generally also. Maybe because of the myths around the 88?

Bies

Nope. It was the Myth of being run down by Tigers when they ran out of ammo  

(Austin Powers comes to mind)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! ... AHHHHHHHHHHH!


- Jig

[Scootter]

I think if both fired one shot and both hit center of mass in hull. There would be a geater chance of the slopeing armor on the Panther to deflect the round (both rounds at 1000m have the ability to kill the other) the sloping armor is the wild card in the contest. This is why the next generation of tank had sloping armor (it works better then thicker and is lighter for the amount of protection)The Panther had better mobility and was a better tank IMO but the Tiger was heaver and the 88 was deadly so I would rather stand behind the Tiger then the Panther but would not wand to be in either  

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by Scootter:
I think if both fired one shot and both hit center of mass in hull. There would be a geater chance of the slopeing armor on the Panther to deflect the round (both rounds at 1000m have the ability to kill the other) the sloping armor is the wild card in the contest. This is why the next generation of tank had sloping armor (it works better then thicker and is lighter for the amount of protection)The Panther had better mobility and was a better tank IMO but the Tiger was heaver and the 88 was deadly so I would rather stand behind the Tiger then the Panther but would not wand to be in either  

The Kv-1 crews weren't afraid of the Tiger. They hated the Panthers tho  

- Jig

[Radegast]

 

Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
...and that those 23 mm had pnetration of 400mm of armor at 500 yds or so...

Are you sure about this penetration?? Thats more than 12.8cm PAK44 (230mm at 1000m)

[Sorrow[S=A]]

I am pretty sure- Yva was the only 23mm cannon in use against tanks by the end of the war because it's AP and SAPI shells were capable of piercing armor so well against turrets on panthers and tigers.  

BTW I mentioned ULTRA ShKAS not plain ShKAS- while the normal gun fired at 1800 rpm most of the ones on Il-2 after '44 were Ultra's left over from the production run for rear guns on bombers. The Ultra had about 3000 RPM and had to have the barrel changed every 10,000 rounds. In effect- with 7.62mm there would be no reason to not give them the Ultra in our late war plane set  

Edit: whoops! thats right- it's 400 meters- 25mm penetration..  my bad

[This message has been edited by Sorrow[S=A] (edited 08-17-2000).]

[Mattibaby80]

Ok...ok.....I was a bit hasty in saying the Panther could easily beat the Tiger.  It would be a hell of a fight, but I think that the Panther would come out on top because of what I said before.  Not easily, and the crew might walk away severly shaken, but the Panther would win.

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Meine Schwester hat keine kartoffel salat!  Du bist eine lustige Buba!!!

[Radegast]

25mm/400m sound much better   it was strange that that small gun was more then twice powerfull then the best AT gun germans had.

[This message has been edited by Radegast (edited 08-17-2000).]