Author Topic: Manual Trim Control  (Read 2308 times)

Offline SWrokit

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2009, 07:49:04 PM »
<S> All,

Yea I hear yas on turning it off and sticking with it.  My old bellybutton is like (when I do turn it off) OMG  :O LMAO!!  Yall need to understand, my first few years with HTC was from within a GV, with a reputable squad.  Now....I enjoy the "Darker side" lol, and OH MY!! I do enjoy the ski ride  :D  But all flight is self taught, not unlike many others.

Yall are right!!  I need to turn it off and work it till it bleeds  :lol

Salute, and as always, I appreciate the feed back.........

<S>
Rokit
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RIP.......SWfire, SWmac, GMC, SWonyx

Offline ImADot

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2009, 08:06:10 PM »
Sounds like you're a bit ham-fisted at the controls.  :joystick:

Stall limiter was compensating for your wild stick movements.  Without stall limiter, you need to re-train yourself to be smooth and deliberate with your controls and you'll find that you rarely need to push the stick to the full deflection of its movement.  A little bit of input scaling might also help you get a feel for flying without the limiter.

Good luck.  Patience is rewarded...
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2009, 08:07:01 PM »
<S> All,

Yea I hear yas on turning it off and sticking with it.  My old bellybutton is like (when I do turn it off) OMG  :O LMAO!!  Yall need to understand, my first few years with HTC was from within a GV, with a reputable squad.  Now....I enjoy the "Darker side" lol, and OH MY!! I do enjoy the ski ride  :D  But all flight is self taught, not unlike many others.

Yall are right!!  I need to turn it off and work it till it bleeds  :lol

Salute, and as always, I appreciate the feed back.........

<S>
Rokit

When I started AH, there wasn't a stall limiter but had experience already flying in the FR arenas in AW from time to time and playing WB.  Playing those two games made me learn to listen to the stall buzzer.  People over look it as an annoying sound effect but it can really give you the necessary audio clues to allow you to ride the edge of the envelope.  With the sole exception of the flaps, the stall buzzer is the only other sound I keep at 100% (everything else is set to 70%) so I can clearly hear the stall buzzer over all the other sounds.  I even dug through old sound files I had and found a stall buzzer with a clicking sound rather than a buzzer and this stall clicker, in my opinion, gives me a more precise audio clue for the stall.  Through the pitch and speed of the clicks, I can pretty much accurately fly on that thin line of the flight envelope.


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Offline SWrokit

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2009, 08:21:07 PM »
Ack.....lol Bro, I remember the clicking sound for stall warning.  And you may have hit it right on the head Bro...........that blamed assed buzzer down right gets on my nerves!!  Dang Bro, would you be willing to share the sound packet?  If so send me a PM and & return my email addy.  I do the same both in the air and on the ground......that being I lower most of the sounds.  I'm quite dependent on hearing what's around me, hence the sound card from hell  :D

<S>
Rokit
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RIP.......SWfire, SWmac, GMC, SWonyx

Offline CAP1

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2009, 08:32:30 PM »
Ack.....lol Bro, I remember the clicking sound for stall warning.  And you may have hit it right on the head Bro...........that blamed assed buzzer down right gets on my nerves!!  Dang Bro, would you be willing to share the sound packet?  If so send me a PM and & return my email addy.  I do the same both in the air and on the ground......that being I lower most of the sounds.  I'm quite dependent on hearing what's around me, hence the sound card from hell  :D

<S>
Rokit

have you downloaded any of the custom soundpacks yet?

they have different stall warnings.

i use twinbooms sounds.....and it's a lot less annoyoing......
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Offline SWrokit

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2009, 08:44:26 PM »
CC...Installed Ranger's Pack.

<S>
Rokit
SWrokit; CO~125th Spartans

RIP.......SWfire, SWmac, GMC, SWonyx

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2009, 11:27:14 PM »
Besides the stall buzzer onset of buffeting is another cue.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2009, 11:38:45 PM »
Besides the stall buzzer onset of buffeting is another cue.

i was in the da last night......flew against sonicblu, krupinski, grizz, agent360........those guys will FORCE you to learn to ride the stall....then they'll nail ya to the wall with those dam taters.


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Offline SWrokit

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2009, 02:21:34 AM »
LMAO Cap!!  I went to the TA and worked it for a while yesterday........and YEP  :O lol.  I'll be transforming over, without a doubt.....BUT OMG!!  It's definitely going to take some work lol.

It's all good though, we all eventually need to discard the training wheels.......only took me 7 - 8 years  :D  I get this worked out, hell I'll start working on potty training  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Again, thanks everyone for the input.

<S>
Rokit
SWrokit; CO~125th Spartans

RIP.......SWfire, SWmac, GMC, SWonyx

Offline CAP1

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2009, 07:52:02 AM »
LMAO Cap!!  I went to the TA and worked it for a while yesterday........and YEP  :O lol.  I'll be transforming over, without a doubt.....BUT OMG!!  It's definitely going to take some work lol.

It's all good though, we all eventually need to discard the training wheels.......only took me 7 - 8 years  :D  I get this worked out, hell I'll start working on potty training  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Again, thanks everyone for the input.

<S>
Rokit

eehh......easy to get rid of the training wheels...........

just fly straight, level, and slow, near an enemy base. there'll be someone up shortly to remove them for ya.  :neener: :neener:
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Offline WMLute

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2009, 11:26:32 AM »
People who scale their sticks and trim up for turns are in effect moving the "more scaled" area of stick movement to a higher AOA. This makes it easier to stay at max AOA without going too far and losing lift. So trimming up makes tight turns easier. It won't make the perfect turn any tighter, but it could help make a good turn better.

Max elevator deflection is just that, MAX deflection.

All manually trimming will do is make your j/s throw shorter to hit max deflection.

So if you are pulling the j/s back an inch, or have trimmed up and are pulling you joystick back 1/2 and inch, either way you are reaching max deflection.


There are many times/reasons to trim your plane.  

High speed in a ki84.
Nose up in an F4U @ stall speed.
Dropping flaps to land to offest the nose lift.
(there is more, just a few examples)

BUT to turn tighter in a stall fight isn't one of 'em.

(EDIT: after some thought, I wanted to add that I scale my j/s so most all the sliders are all the way at the top.  There MIGHT be an argument to manually trim if you are using AH's default stick scale to help control a turn.  Granted, you should prob. scale your j/s and eliminate that need, but there is an argument there.)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 11:30:24 AM by WMLute »
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2009, 12:19:42 PM »
Just for anyone who doesn't understand how trim works here's a couple of posts of mine copied from this thread on trim: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,269771.0.html

When a trim tab is employed, it is moved into the slipstream opposite to the control surface's desired deflection. For example, in order to trim an elevator to hold the nose down, the elevator's trim tab will actually rise up into the slipstream. The increased pressure on top of the trim tab surface caused by raising it will then deflect the entire elevator slab down slightly, causing the tail to rise and the aircraft's nose to move down.

This would explain why they have no ability to improve turn performance and it also explains why they are so effective in overcoming control stiffness.

Think about a compressed dive.  The airstream is providing greater force then the pilot can overcome by pulling back on the stick, thus the elevators are locked.  When the pilot trims up the trim tab is deflected down into the airstream providing an upward force on the elevator which is transferred to the stick thereby assisting the pilot in pulling it back.

The pilot can trim in this instance because the trim tab is relatively small compared to the elevator itself so forcing it into the airstream is relatively that much easier.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2009, 02:03:17 PM »
Another thread about using Trim that might be of some help or benefit

this link starts about 1/4 way down on the thread topic........read the following replys

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257910.msg3195777.html#msg3195777


hope this helps..........  :salute  :airplane:
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Offline FLS

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2009, 07:01:42 PM »
Max elevator deflection is just that, MAX deflection.

All manually trimming will do is make your j/s throw shorter to hit max deflection.

So if you are pulling the j/s back an inch, or have trimmed up and are pulling you joystick back 1/2 and inch, either way you are reaching max deflection.


There are many times/reasons to trim your plane.  

High speed in a ki84.
Nose up in an F4U @ stall speed.
Dropping flaps to land to offest the nose lift.
(there is more, just a few examples)

BUT to turn tighter in a stall fight isn't one of 'em.

(EDIT: after some thought, I wanted to add that I scale my j/s so most all the sliders are all the way at the top.  There MIGHT be an argument to manually trim if you are using AH's default stick scale to help control a turn.  Granted, you should prob. scale your j/s and eliminate that need, but there is an argument there.)

You failed to understand what I wrote and you argued against a point I didn't make. If you hadn't quoted me your post would have been mostly correct. As a response to what you quoted it's nonsense.


Offline WMLute

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Re: Manual Trim Control
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2009, 10:07:54 PM »
You failed to understand what I wrote and you argued against a point I didn't make. If you hadn't quoted me your post would have been mostly correct. As a response to what you quoted it's nonsense.

Mostly?  Nothing at all inaccurate about what I posted.  Spot on actually.

RE: to your post it was not as much a direct reply to what you wrote, as much as adding to it and clarifying a known "myth" in AH.  I have run across too many pilots that think trimming helps you turn tighter which is just plane false.


I do disagree with trimming for a tighter turn as a whole.  Throttle management and position will give you a much better result than trimming ever will.

In a very limited sense, and in certain situations, what you posted is somewhat accurate; but on the whole you are not doing anybody any favors telling them to trim for a turn.  Alt, speed, vectors, etc, etc.. change so instantly in a fight that being out of trim for that NEXT move/evasive/counter will hurt you far more than that the (maybe) advantage of having your plane trimmed for a turn.

I COULD see it being helpfull when diving in for a pick at a high rate of speed because you are not sticking around and are extending/zooming away so you will have time to adjust trim on your extend/zoom.  But as I allready stated throttle management and proper position (angle/vector) would give you better results.
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