Surviving the MA lonewolf

[Threeup]

What a good thread!!
I often wonder what the purpose of the game is and my conclusion is a degree of immersion and suspense of reality.
If I wanted to test my hand eye co-ordination I would do something else on line.
Nimble's OP and Steve's replies really struck a chord and ring very true.
I am probably the worst fighter pilot in my squad and think a lot as to why the rest of the prawns (esp. Gorkle & FTJR) rack up kill after kill after kill and only stop to re-arm - I've seen the same thing with Steve.
It's patience - not lack or oversupply of skill - just patience. If the shot's not there it doesn't get taken and if the kill doesn't happen the first time, losses are cut, alt is gained and the work begins anew.
And that's a common thread amongst "top sticks", very rarely do you go into fight with them and they haven't got things in their favour (that's not sour grapes by the way). They evaluate their options and make an informed decision and engage, otherwise they truck off and re-evaluate the next position and enemy.
I would use some adjectives to describe this, but certainly timid doesn't come to mind. Intelligent and sensible does. They take as much luck out of the fight and put it into a logical frame with a few good decisions to effect an outcome. That's not timid.
Anyway - good thread.

[stodd]

2. altitude altitude altitude!! minimum 15k+

[nimble]

Threeup,


Thanks for the positive response. I just hope that the tips listed help you out in the MA!


EDIT: is it possible to get the OP unlocked from editting so I can add Steve's excellent additions to the original?

[Ack-Ack]

You bet


 I tend to bristle when someone equates E fighting or BnZ  to timid. I'll grant that there are guys who sit on a  perch and will not engage in anything that  you or I'd consider a fight. These guys certainly are timid.
  

TBH being outnumbered doesn't bother me if I have some E. I often feint a pass/dive on one "juicy" target like a low p47, 110, or other ride that people normally pick out as an easy kill when I am really after a dangerous plane to me(109, la7, spit16, p51). I always target the planes that can build E quickly or have a high top end speed first, starting with the one with the most stored/kinetic E first. This is where the seperation comes into play I talk about originally. I'll lead that target away from the pack and engage in a 1v1 if possible.

Same.  A few days ago I encountered 5 members of a squadron in the MW arena all flying together as a group about 2,000 to 3,000ft below me.  Since they were flying as a group and I knew that if I decided to concentrate on one of them and engage in an angles fight with that player the other four would then attack me and I'd find myself in a 5v1 angles (turn) fight that I couldn't possibly win.  Instead, I used my altitude and potential energy advantage to my favor and would dance on their heads, forcing them to break and burn whatever energy they had to set up my next attack.  This resulted in me shooting down all five and one of them sending me PMs calling me a timid cherry picker because I used BnZ attacks against all of them in a fight that lasted no more than 6 minutes instead of engaging in a flat turn fight against them all at the same time.

In situations like the above, I like to use the story of the old bull and the young bull as an example of my fighting style.  Why go rushing down to the herd of jerseys (angles fight) and bag one when I can saunter (BnZ or E fight) and bag them all?

There was also this one player in the MW arena that used to only fly the Hurricane IIc and to him, anyone that didn't flat turn fight him (regardless of what plane you were in) was a timid pilot that didn't know how to turn fight.  He'd get upset when he ran into me because I wouldn't get into a luftberry fight with him, instead using vertical turns to angles fight.  Seriously, I'm in a P-38J and he's in a Hurricane IIc and he expects me to try and flat turn with a plane that will easily out turn mine?  He's scream "TIMID BNZER!" each time I sent his plane down in flames, regardless of the fact that I was using vertical turns instead of flat turns to angles (turn) fight and not BnZ maneuvers.  I miss fireplug sometimes.


ack-ack

[Banshee7]

I miss fireplug sometimes.

   Way to sneak that in there.  I thought that's who you were talking about.  Him or Crossbns

[Wreked]

.............In situations like the above, I like to use the story of the old bull and the young bull as an example of my fighting style.  Why go rushing down to the herd of jerseys (angles fight) and bag one when I can saunter (BnZ or E fight) and bag them all...............

ack-ack

 
Truer words - fight to your machines strengths and against the enemies weaknesses - that is NOT timid - that is SMART!!

....cheers eh!

[FiLtH]

    Using the plane's strengths is ok sometimes for me. Like when I jump in a Tempest and go huntin. But normal day to day flying I like to find a good fight. Take yesterday for example. I flew a P40E toward an enemy base. I was about 10k and looked down and saw 100Huntr engaged with a 109. He looked to be in trouble so I asked if he needed help. He didnt answer so I figured he was too busy or something. I dove down to distract the 109 and pulled back up. This 109 had just survived a 2 on 1 (I saw him kill Chewi just before I got near) and I didnt want to spoil the fight. So I asked again saying if he didnt respond Id stay out. He didnt respond and shortly after Huntr blew up.

  So now I dove to the deck. Ya, I had alt and E over the 109, but I prefer evening out the fight. The 109 which showed a 109K icon, suddenly changed to a 109F. Was weird. We started fighting and fought for a real long time enjoying a great 1 on 1. The P40E vs 109F is THE favorite matchup for me in the game. The 109F has the better engine..alot like the SPit9 in my opinion and can stay nose up better. He tagged me a couple times and luckily for me he had no cannon. This went on for Id say 10 minutes. Best fight in ages. Then as expected a Spit showed up and I had 2 to fight for awile. Finally the spit landed some cannon shots and crippled me. Then some friendlies showed up as I went in.

  Kungfu was the 109F. These are the opponents I play the game for. Alot of guys are good, but its how someone fights that makes the difference for me. I'll remember that fight for a long time. The times I up a Tempest get kills and rtb are forgotten as soon as I replane.

[BnZs]

Truer words - fight to your machines strengths and against the enemies weaknesses - that is NOT timid - that is SMART!!

....cheers eh!

Of course, it should be pointed out, that generally speaking there are only two strengths you can have over an enemy's machine that decide things. Turn performance or energy performance (Usually thrust/weight, but the Ta-152 is an interesting exception...good energy performance through sheer retention under Gs.). Eh, and you can divide turn performance into rate and radius in the dissimilar matchups where one has a decided advantage in one and a decided disadvantage in the other, if you want to split hairs.

The third of the "Holy Trinity" of performance advantages, top speed, is, lets face it, useful simply for forcing the engagement when the opponent is at a disadvantage/obviously incompetent and disengaging when he is not. Since being faster gives you the potential to "kill sometimes and *always* live", no wonder it is the one most favored by real pilots, but it must be realized that sim pilots have different wants in the plane they are flying and different expectations out of their opponents...hence the Runstang/Run90/Runtard appellations.

[Hawk55]

That's pretty much how I fly in the MA except I don't fly a fast plane (F6F).

When I come up against you, it sure seems fast Greebo .  You make that F6 do things few others' can do.  I should've filmed last nights encounter and learned from you...it was a thing of beauty!  

[Soulyss]

10. always return your bird to the crew chief who loaned it to you

I don't want my crew chief to be bored which is why I always try to salvage at least one of two parts of the wreck before I hike back home.  That way I figure by the end of the week he'll have a good "weekend project" to keep him entertained, putting all the parts back together.

[thorsim]

Boyd called it "tigers vs. p**sies" and like many things he projected this well beyond ACM ...

but there is a balance in the best ...


how much of this guy ...


do you balance with this guy?

what is your Boe/Boy ratio ???

+S+

t

[RTHolmes]

Wow you're really implying Boelcke was a p**sy? 

Papy wouldnt have survived as long as he did, or with so much success if he wasnt following Boelcke's dicta to a large degree. you're comparing apples to apples there.

[thorsim]

not my words, read the book/s, i gave the source.

i am just using the two pilots shown as symbols of ("smart" flying / "aggressive" flying)

and the whole point is that a really good pilot needs to be both smart and aggressive ...

if you need to start a fight choose another poster as this issue although interesting is not something i would involve myself in drama over.

t

Wow you're really implying Boelcke was a p**sy?  

Papy wouldnt have survived as long as he did, or with so much success if he wasnt following Boelcke's dicta to a large degree. you're comparing apples to apples there.

 

[FiLtH]

[Guppy35]

Well there's 10 minutes of reading time I won't get back

Fly however the heck you want to fly.  Understand the key point here.  There is absolutely no risk in this game outside of dying from a heart attack from lack of circulation due to sitting at the computer too long or getting shot by your significant other who is tired of looking at the side of your head for days on end.

Steve, you and I have run into each other many a time in the MA.  More often then not, you are above me in your 51D as you like it, and me below you in my 38G as I like it.  The challenge for me is to try and counter and defeat your advantage.  Sometimes I do, more often then not, I don't.  It's what is fun to me.

I look a the title of this thread.  'surviving the MA lonewolf".  Not once in all these years of cartoon flying have I not survived.  In itself the title is misleading.  As always it's one guy's opinion on the way to 'fly' in the arenas.  Then we get the Dicta Boelcke bit etc.  Folks start confusing real life air combat with cartoon land combat.  If that's how you choose to fly it, so be it, but to preach it as 'the way" is silly. 

I understand where Shuff is coming from.  These days I get very little time for cartoon combat in my 38G of my doom.  When I do fly, I don't care to climb high.  I just get myself a few K and wander towards the fight.  I know someone will oblige me

And in thinking about it, the guys up high make a living off guys like me, and I don't mean the bad guys.  I would bet that if you totaled up over the years the number of my deaths, to the number of deaths of the 6 guys shooting at me at the time I died in the crowd, the ratio would be off the charts in terms of their deaths.  You guys up high need me drawing cons for ya so you can shoot em

In the end there is no losing in AH for me, as long as I'm having fun, and thankfully when I do get to fly, that tends to be the case.