B24 Wing loading

[2Slow]

I have noticed that the B24 wing main spar has become quite fragile. What is up with this?  In the PTO the B24 often did toss bombing missions.

I have heard a rumor that the B24 was weakened in response to fighter jock complaints.  Here is a hint for the fighters.  Marksmanship is important.  Secondly, fuselage hits look cool, but wing fuel tank hits accounted for almost all enemy fire victories.

[Guppy35]

Where'd you see info on "Toss" bombing by B24s.

They did skip bombing in the Pac, but I've never seen anything about toss bombing.  

Seems like that's a B47 tactic to throw nukes and get away from the blast in the 50s.  They had to quit doing it because of cracks in spars etc.  

Dan/Slack

[2Slow]

I read it on a B24 related web site.  The site had some mission diaries from crew members.  Been a while since I saw it, but I can look for it again.  They did mention skip bombing against shipping.  The toss bombing was from a mission profile of a low approach, 1 to 2 K alt., with a pop up and release while still in climb.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Where'd you see info on "Toss" bombing by B24s.

They did skip bombing in the Pac, but I've never seen anything about toss bombing.  

Seems like that's a B47 tactic to throw nukes and get away from the blast in the 50s.  They had to quit doing it because of cracks in spars etc.  

Dan/Slack

F-105s were setup to do that, too.  They essentially launched the bomb as they flew an Immelmann.  There was a special bombing computer onboard that did the drop automatically, IIRC.



shubie

[2Slow]

The B47 and F105 toss bombing was much more severe than the B24.  They needed a big, long toss to get away from the big bang.

At my local VFW one of the old veterans was a B24 pilot.  He also told me of toss bombing.  They were not concerned with being pin point accurate.  It was more of a glide toss.  Worked well for port and shipping facilities.

When I have more time, I will try to find an account of it on the Web.  Failing that, I will declare a BS foul!

[2Slow]

Originally posted by 2Slow
The B47 and F105 toss bombing was much more severe than the B24.  They needed a big, long toss to get away from the big bang.

At my local VFW one of the old veterans was a B24 pilot.  He also told me of toss bombing.  They were not concerned with being pin point accurate.  It was more of a glide toss.  Worked well for port and shipping facilities.

When I have more time, I will try to find an account of it on the Web.  Failing that, I will declare a BS foul!

I declare a BS foul.  The article I read had them doing a toss/glide bomb.  However, they did not do it as part of a mission profile.  AAA lit them up.  So they made a hard climb and jettisoned the bomb load.  They got lucky and hit some enemy real estate with them.

The old VFW guy told me they did play with it in WWII, but not in combat.

Still, the wings are ripping off way to easy.  It was doctrine in WWII to turn into the fighters if under attack and alone.  When the fighters extended after their pass, B24's and B17's would turn into them.  It brought the most guns to bear with the least deflection to deal with.  Those who tried to run, got shot down.

[Charon]

I declare a BS foul. The article I read had them doing a toss/glide bomb. However, they did not do it as part of a mission profile. AAA lit them up. So they made a hard climb and jettisoned the bomb load. They got lucky and hit some enemy real estate with them.

That is the profile they used in delivering nuclear weapons. I seem to recall reading an artilce where even the old skyraider was set up for this, though escape was more wishful thinking than practical.

Charon

[SunTracker]

B24 had notoriously fragile wing.  Probably because it was so long and thin.

[mora]

Originally posted by Charon
That is the profile they used in delivering nuclear weapons. I seem to recall reading an artilce where even the old skyraider was set up for this, though escape was more wishful thinking than practical.

Charon

Tossing nukes with a Skyraider.

[storch]

Originally posted by SunTracker
B24 had notoriously fragile wing.  Probably because it was so long and thin.

and because they were built by Ford

[Charon]

Thank's Mora. That's the article

World War III has come, and Breakeven Four Zero One is at the pointy end of the spear, heading for Russia at a fuel-thrifty 140 knots...

In addition to flash, there's the blast from your MK 7. A turbojet whips along at 500 knots or more, putting a respectable distance between it and the explosion, but the Able Dog at combat power is less than half as fast as the shockwave.  Not to worry! You'll honk back on the control stick and loft the MK 7 onto the target while you're still two miles away, meanwhile doubling back the way you came. This is LABS: Low Altitude Bombing System.

Charon

[Kweassa]

I have heard a rumor that the B24 was weakened in response to fighter jock complaints. Here is a hint for the fighters. Marksmanship is important. Secondly, fuselage hits look cool, but wing fuel tank hits accounted for almost all enemy fire victories.

 What's your G load?

 Most AH buff wings withstand at least 5~6Gs. If my hunch is right, if you're actually going so fast and pulling so hard that the G limit exceeds some 6~7Gs on a buff, and break off a wing, then you're dweebing with a level buff.

 So record your flight, and see at which Gs the wing breaks off. Post the results here then - the IAS and TAS you were diving with a buff, and the G load you were pulling when the wing broke off.

 If we have that info I think we can determine if the B24 wings are indeed 'neutered', or if you're doing over prohibitive speeds and G loads and blaming the system for it.

[2Slow]

Originally posted by Kweassa
What's your G load?

 Most AH buff wings withstand at least 5~6Gs. If my hunch is right, if you're actually going so fast and pulling so hard that the G limit exceeds some 6~7Gs on a buff, and break off a wing, then you're dweebing with a level buff.

 So record your flight, and see at which Gs the wing breaks off. Post the results here then - the IAS and TAS you were diving with a buff, and the G load you were pulling when the wing broke off.

 If we have that info I think we can determine if the B24 wings are indeed 'neutered', or if you're doing over prohibitive speeds and G loads and blaming the system for it.

Good point and idea.

[Soda]

Wings come off the B24 at about 2.75G's when loaded, just before 3G when unloaded.... at least my testing showed that a while ago.  I have seen a lot of guys pulling the wings of big aircraft though, C47's don't seem immune either, those big "bat-wing" evasives fold the wings if you do it too hard.

Certainly makes pulling out of dives a lot tougher, not that guys who divebomb in level bombers usually care....

[CMC Airboss]

It seems that this problem would only become evident if flying the B-24 during non-level bombing or dogfighting profiles.  The Davis wing design, with its low aspect ratio, was built for high speed efficient cruise flight.  

MiG