Author Topic: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting  (Read 47388 times)

Offline Mister Fork

  • AvA Staff Member
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7257
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #210 on: April 16, 2010, 03:06:21 PM »


Dare to dream I suppose. :)
"Games are meant to be fun and fair but fighting a war is neither." - HiTech

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #211 on: April 16, 2010, 04:57:57 PM »
We also need the Stuka to be able to pick a torpedo as a loadout and of course the 37mms.



The D-4 never saw operational service and after testing and evaluation at Travemunde, it was detemined that there were already planes that were better suited for dropping torpedoes like the He-111 and Ju 88.  The D-4s were then converted back to their original types (D-1s and D-3s).

Adding the d-4 would be a waste of developer resources and it also does not qualify to be added to the game as it does not meet any of the criteria.


ack-ack
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 05:02:11 PM by Ack-Ack »
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Yossarian

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2516
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #212 on: April 16, 2010, 09:20:13 PM »
The more I read about this variant, the more I want it :P

+1
Afk for a year or so.  The name of a gun turret in game.  Falanx, huh? :banana:
Apparently I'm in the 20th FG 'Loco Busters', or so the legend goes.
O o
/Ż________________________
| IMMA FIRIN' MAH 75MM!!!
\_ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ

Offline stephen

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 744
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #213 on: April 16, 2010, 11:11:51 PM »
However, there was a 190 variant made available that was able to carry a single torpedo if my memory serves me... lol, geez, I thought we where talking about Hanz Ulricj Rudels ride of choice? :headscratch:

Anyway, back on topic...the Ju87 armed with 2 37mm anti tank guns seems to be a viable, and easily introduced alternative to the allready over used IL-2...
It would be a breath of fresh air, and I hardly think development would be much of a problem as the dive bombing variant allready egsists.

Why dont we have this aircraft yet...? (oh yeah, it was in Warbirds)  :aok

Spell checker is for Morrons

Offline Mister Fork

  • AvA Staff Member
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7257
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #214 on: April 19, 2010, 01:26:18 PM »
The issue is that we have the HurriIID - which is pretty close in terms of performance and firepower.  

Furthermore, a re-modelling of the Stuka to the AHII standards + the new damage model would be required.  So, it's not just adding a different weapons loadout like they did with the B-25, but essentially a new aircraft when the He-111, Do-17, + half-a-dozen Japanese, Russian, and Italian variants probably are priority.

I'd still like to see it however. :aok
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 01:28:00 PM by Mister Fork »
"Games are meant to be fun and fair but fighting a war is neither." - HiTech

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #215 on: April 19, 2010, 03:23:00 PM »
The HurrIID is a pathetic anti-tank plane. Maybe in real life against the earlier lesser armed tanks those low-velocity 40mm guns could do something, but they pale in comparison to the Soviet 37mms on the IL2 and the 37mms on the Ju87.

I've come down in a perfect attack angle before, nearly 80-90 degrees, fired 2 bursts, seen 4 hit sprites in close proximity on the rear deck of a panzer before, and got nothing. I flew several sorties in a row once defending a base from a major GV attack. I unloaded 3-4 sorties' worth of rounds into a handful of tanks (same target over and over) and in one case I unloaded 30 rounds into a single panzer with nothing to show for it (and I was hitting, I did get the kill while I was landing and some GVer killed the guy for me, he wasn't smoking or damaged at that point though so it was not my doing).

Now, if you were to say "We have the IL2 with 37mm, so we don't need the Ju87" you might have a bit of an argument, but the Hurr2D is rubbish. Pure rubbish.

That said, there are differences between our IL2 and the Ju87. The Ju would have higher penetration I believe based on the round fired. It would also handle much more differently than the IL2. IMO the Ju is more docile in handling, lighter on its wings, and would probably be able to make an attack and pull up with less risk of crashing than my usual IL2 sortie.

Let's not forget historic matchups... For historical immersion we should eventually get it for the same reason we should get the Ju-52.

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #216 on: April 19, 2010, 04:33:41 PM »
The issue is that we have the HurriIID - which is pretty close in terms of performance and firepower.  

Not even close.
Look here for a good comparison.   http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm
See Rule #4

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #217 on: April 19, 2010, 04:54:59 PM »
, but the Hurr2D is rubbish. Pure rubbish.



The Hurri IID kills every tank in AH, without exception. Period.
Now since we got the 37mm Il-2 version (and to some extend the B-25h) it's not the best tank buster any more... particularly because of it's low ammo count.
But that doesn't make it "rubbish" at all. Just more difficult to master than the new Il-2.
When we only hat the 23mm Il-2, the Hurri D was the only plane capable of killing Tigers & T34/76 when ords were down. And it can still do that. I can and do routinely kill every vehicle in game with my Hurri D, from Panzer to Sherman & Tiger. The only reason I occasionally up Il-2s at all is the prevalence of the Wirbelwind. And I don't need 30 rounds for a Panzer.

The plane is very capable of killing AH armor. The pilot might not.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #218 on: April 19, 2010, 05:17:54 PM »
The Hurri IID kills every tank in AH, without exception. Period.

I have to disagree.

I've had more success using the 40mm against AIRCRAFT than I have against tanks! Anything soft is fair game, but unless the armor piercing code has changed in the past 6 months or so my experience has 100% of of the time been no kills, regardless of how wel I performed the attack run, or how sloppy. Close range or long range, same results. Any angle, top down, rear deck, nothing.

I put 18 rounds into the upper surfaces of a panzer once and only smoked his turret after the last pair of shots. After that I said "screw that" and looked for the next target. I figured I'd get a kill but only got an assist as another tank finished him off.

I stand by my "rubbish" criticism, and will continue to do so. I'm not totally unskilled. I can figure out a nice downward angle for best penetration on a target, etc.

Fact of the matter is even with the IL2's 37mm it sometimes takes 4-6 top-down hits over the engine compartment of a panzer to smoke him. I don't honestly know what's up with tanks in this game but it's in no way realistic IMO.

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #219 on: April 19, 2010, 05:25:13 PM »
I have killed every tank type in game at some point with the 2d. While not "rubbish" it is much more difficult than the IL2.
See Rule #4

Offline minke

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #220 on: April 19, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »
I'll agree with krusty on this one. I can knock out panzers for fun with the IL, way harder with hurri. I'd like the Ju just to see how it fares. However the Il is still going to be the best purely because of the punishment it can take from wirbs.

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #221 on: April 19, 2010, 05:34:46 PM »
Let's not forget the IL2's 100 rounds as compared to 24 (and those 24 would fire in pairs, so 12 shots only, less than the Hurr2D's 15 shots!)

The IL2 will remain the best for MA use, no doubt.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #222 on: April 19, 2010, 05:35:37 PM »
I have to disagree.

I've had more success using the 40mm against AIRCRAFT than I have against tanks! Anything soft is fair game, but unless the armor piercing code has changed in the past 6 months or so my experience has 100% of of the time been no kills, regardless of how wel I performed the attack run, or how sloppy. Close range or long range, same results. Any angle, top down, rear deck, nothing.


Question: If one player kills tanks in the Hurricane D, and the other does not.
Is the latter one right when saying: "The plane can't" or the first one saying: "The plane can"? ;)

When there are not too many Wirbels around, I still take up the Hurri D instead of any other plane for tank busting. Actually, since I learned how to use the Hurricane D I basically stopped using bombs to kill tanks, even long before the 25H and the 37mm Il-2 came.

Up to this very moment, I have killed 737 GVs in the Hurricane D in Late War:

4 Jeep   
4 LVTA2   
17 LVTA4   
7 M-16   
56 M-3   
16 M-8   
41 Ostwind   
368 Panzer IV H   
2 PT Boat   
10 SdKfz 251   
114 Sherman VC   
45 T-34/76   
13 T-34/85   
31 Tiger I   
9 Wirbelwind   

 :neener:

A few dozen more (including Tigers & T34's) in MW, but I'm, not keeping stats for MW.


Just for the record, the only tank that really gives me fits and usually absorbs most of my shells is the T-34/76. Tigers are easy. Panzers are dead meat on a table.


I'll agree with krusty on this one. I can knock out panzers for fun with the IL way harder with hurri

Of course it's way easier. I do not dispute that. the 37mm Il-2 is like using a hot knife to cut butter.
But I vehemently disagree with the HurriD being "rubbish" or incapable of doing it's job in AH2.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 05:41:06 PM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline minke

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #223 on: April 19, 2010, 05:45:49 PM »
ok, i wouldnt use rubbish, but it is really inefficient at tank busting. With its armour and ord, the Il has to be the first choice almost every time. The only time I would consider using the hurri is if there is a light cap over the field and enemy gv's in town. Even then do i want manouverability over armour ?

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: JU87 w\37mm Cannon for Tank Busting
« Reply #224 on: April 19, 2010, 05:47:43 PM »
Forgive the amount of time this takes as I am out of practice. Offline standard settings.
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/22032019/tiger_busting.ahf
See Rule #4