HTC please check 190 damage model

[hazed-]

ok Vermillion will you please stop calling it a 'anti-LW-conspiricy post'.
Im not talking about all LW just the 190!
I really get annoyed when i try to put my veiw in to these boards and its described as a godamn whine or like you said some sort of rant on an anti-LW policy.
IT is a simple observation which i would like HTC to check out for me.I have extensively tested this but noone will take my word for it so im ASKING htc to help me find out what is, or why this is happening.
Thanks everyone for your input.
btw i started same thread in general to try to be sure of an answer   heres link
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/008792.html


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Hazed
3./JG2

[Fishu]

Well... I remember from november that if there were engine shots on P-38 by acks, I lost half of the time engine and half of those times both engines.
I didn't do too many A/G missions in P-38, but if there was damage, it was most likely engine and couple of times both engines shot by two hits.

In Ar.234 offline durability tests, I did most often suffer engine damage (every time engine got killed right off) and second most damage was direct pilot kill.
Theres been some flights that I've done through ack fields.
While observing from external view, I witnessed very direct hits on engines often.
At altitude, most damages were in the engines, about 25% of hits were in the engines.
at nap of earth pass, pilot hits occured most and more non damaging hits.

So I don't think its just 190, since I did once test 190F8 against ack field and I took several hits before any damage. (wing blew and couple seconds later crashed)

Though, I don't know how accurate ack is in MA, but in offline it was fairly inaccurate (I managed to make several clean passes in Ar.234 NOE 450-500mph and fly long time close to field in Ta152 without hits)
I believe ack accuracy is built-in the game and static... correct me if im wrong.

..but it sure tends to get alot direct engine hits.
Maybe this happens because there isn't dispersion in ack fire?
I haven't noticed any dispersion in it, just inaccuracy.

[Sturm]

I have to agree with hazed here.  Everywhere you go you will find that the luftwaffe followers are more interested in plane performance/specs then any other nation followers.  Why is this?  I might be able to sum it up here.  Growing up I started following aviation at a young age "1st grade"  My father was a F-89 pilot then moved on to the F-101 Voodoo while in the USAF.  So I started to really gain interest in planes, my brother showed me the luftwaffe fighters and read me specs and told me stories about them.  It soon grew into a passion, which has taken a course of 21 years now.  When people join these sims the first thing they want to know is?  How does the FW fly?  The aura of flying them brings us here.  Therefore our number 1 concern is once they have them what could be wrong with them?  We dig thru manuals, books, authors, anything with relevant information.  You will hardly see this kind of passion for allied war birds.  Why is this?  What the luftwaffe did with so few against such overwhelming odds brings out the under dog syndrome in us.  I know the war was to crush nazism and the bubonic plague.  But inside of us we wonder my god what was it like?  The Tiger I + II and Panther tanks, with such size and force drew us in as well.  They had bizarre designs, compared with the somewhat whimsical approaches by the allies.  So it is not a conspiracy for the Luftwaffe, but a following of people that want to see and fly the bird they have drooled about for so many years now.  If you cannot appreciate that then you cannot possibly appreciate this flight sim the way we see it.    

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JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron

[hazed-]

Sturm......mate   ........so eloquently put!I read your post saying yes!..yes..dead right!..exactly!..spot on!.what more can i say this is the EXACT reason i play this game and love the planes.its their aura,their mystique,and the fact that we find it hard to imagine what went through their minds during this time.All ive read, watched etc gives me my veiw on the LW,and others, aeroplanes.Sometimes the planes in AH just dont give me the impression i expect from the planes.I dont expect the game tailored to my every whim! I like discovering what these planes were really like.To me the Accuracy of Aces high IS its draw for me.But when i get the 'feeling' something isnt right and im then able to test it and see it happen again and again (engine quits instantly first hit) I have to ask for it to be checked and this is what ive done.I have film of a typical jabo.first in p51(chose it because it was well known for its vulnerability to ground fire) and then in a 190F8 (supposedly the toughest of the 190 jabo) the p51 was hit and lost radiator but flew on.the 190 hit once on egress which instantly kills the engine.It happens too often.I'll send the films to anyone who wants them (250kb or so).

hazed

[mx22]

Lets face it, when you fly Jabo, it is most likely that the first thing you'll loose is engine. Then it is vertical stab. No matter what plane you fly, that's what happens. Maybe it's just the way acks are modeled in AH - to aim for the engine.

Now Sturm, if you think that Allied planes fans are kids who just showed up and think P-51 and P-47s rule because US won the war, you wrong. Many people spend as much time studying Allied designs as you had spend on those from LW. Nonetheless, it is LW fans who start threads like this one - Fw190F8 gets its engine shot off most of the time and that is why there is something wrong with it. If you would have flown other planes for a bit, you would have noticed that other planes have the same pattern. Btw, hazed flew Fw190F8 only 7 times and 5 sorties in different P-51s, but he talks about damage these planes take like he flies them every other sortie.

mx22

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 03-20-2001).]

[Sturm]

On the contrary I had shelved my FW's and 109's to test the durability of allied planes in here compared to the LW plane set.  If you look at my deaths I would say 20+% are from gv's 25% Ack "A good portion from me being stupid and new to this game".  What I found was I was able to nurse the allied planes across the lines and land or crash land in friendly territory 80% of the time, with the FW's I made it back once and that was because my forward fuel tank was hit and I still had my aft tank.  I did make it back to friendly lines one time from a radiator hit at 9K in my D9 but it took a lot of gliding and engine management.  but as soon as my engine was hit I climbed ASAP knowing it would cut out soon enough.  It might not be the AA that is the problem but the modeling of the radiator/engine dieing to soon.  As opposed to the allied planes which can cruise for quite sometime.  This is after flying some 351 sorties in fighter/atack mode.  I shelved the F8 because I died to frequently in it do to ground fire or being hit once in engine.  What fun is flying a plane that dies that quickly?  I know I am not the only that notices this, and if you say it isn't happening well then you are denying the truth.  Yes it does happen in allied planes but not as frequent as the FW's.

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JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron

[Raubvogel]

I posted a thread about the radiator on the Dora right after 1.06 came out, might have to dig it up. Seems the engine seizes a bit too fast compared to other inline engines.

[Naudet]

Someone mentioned above u wont find many complains about Allied planes in here and only the LW pilot would whine.

The reason is simple, the allied planes are all modeled very excatly in AH. A month ago i started AH and flew my LW babes, and i sucked badly.
Than i though, lets do a little test, and for one week i only flew Spits, F4U and P51. And what can i tell, all were a dream to fly, they did what i read about them. My only sorties were i racked up 4 kills were in Allied planes. And that was because they do in AH what they did in WW2. Also they have these .5 cal long range missles, were u can use a 600 yrd. deflection shoot and see the enemy falling apart.
Anfd then after this "big week" i jumped back in LW fighters and "ouch" there goes my ratio through the bottom. I flew the 109ers nad they were modeled well, but didnt fit my style. Than i flew the FWs and dang the werent capable of much.
And than came the D9 and yes, i felt it was modeled right, fast, exellent roll and stable at high speed. And it was (like in WW2) a plane capable of fighting P51s and Spits.
Also i have to admit the LA7 and the YAK are dam hard opponents, the LA7 is fast and turns good, and the tiny little YAK ccan turn on a dime.

[straffo]

 

The reason is simple, the allied planes are all modeled very excatly in AH. A month ago i started AH and flew my LW babes, and i sucked badly.

Your next challenge Naudet : show us your charts ...
And proove the the modelling is wrong  

 

[Naudet]

U mean the AH charts??

[Glunz]

wrong thread ;(

[This message has been edited by Glunz (edited 03-21-2001).]

[MANDOBLE]

Yesterday I got into ack range two times with 190D9:

First time: one ping, pilot wounded.
Second time: one ping, radiator out.

[straffo]

No naudet,
I mean compare the 12.7mm parameters to the 13mm It will show you that the 13 mm is not that good.Personaly I'm most often in front of mauser and other LW gun and I do find them dangerous   .

And compare the parameters of you beloved FW in AH to real world chart I think there wont be huge differences.
Pilot quality is the allways the main factor exemple my ACM suck badly so even if you give me a tempest I won't be better (check my stat I've ruined 140 point without kills   ).

Concerning the damage model do some of you have some real statistiques about the localisation of damages on downed aircraft ?

The engine destruction in Jabo is perhaps due to the way the ack is coded but compared to what happened in real is it wrong ?

<edit> frogot the mighty frog  

 


[This message has been edited by straffo (edited 03-21-2001).]

[Naudet]

I have charts for 0.5 cal and 13mm MG131 (but have to locate em, btw i am posting this from work   ).

But if memory serves me right, the MG131 has a muzzle velocity a bit lower than the .5 cal, and the ROF is higher in an non-synchronized version.

MG 131: 2490 ft/min
ROF: near 900 rounds/min, sychronized ca. 750 rounds/min

0.5 cals: 2580 ft/min
ROF: 750 rounds/min

As i said this is the data i remember so far, will check this out.

And i agree that the perfomrance charts of AH are not much different from the data un read in books.

And for the D9, i say, yeah its modeled pretty good and there is no real big prob with it to complain about.

But for the F8 there is still the fact that it really sucks in its designed roll as JABO.
A plnae that falls apart so easy by ground fire would have never been used in that role in WW2.

[straffo]

 

But for the F8 there is still the fact that it really sucks in its designed roll as JABO.
A plnae that falls apart so easy by ground fire would have never been used in that role in WW2.

Yep but we don't face the same context in AH the Ack servant are never surprised never terrorized and so on, they are always efficient.
It's pehaps not the resistance of the plane (no A10 in AH neither frogfot  ) to consider but more the way the ack is coded but it's more a gameplay concern.
Personally I've seen Blitz de-acking and closing a small field with a DHog.
Even if you gave me an A10 I will be killed trying to do the same because of incomptence and lack of training/abilities.