Me 163

[Serenity]

The only "twit" is the proven liar.....yourself.  

Proven? Hah! I would love to see an ounce of proof that would stand for so much as a second in court. Your drug-scarred mind may have conjured some delusion as to who I am and what my intelligence level may be, but at the end of the day, it is just that: Delusion. Now, before I go on beating a child (well, a child in the mind though not in body) I will step out of this thread. I shall not keep such distasteful company, even on an internet forum.

[Angus]

Sereniy...tsk tsk tsk. Drug Scarred? Did you guys smoke together or what????
Anyway, that set aside, Is the SR-71 still in use as a recce? And were there incidents of the weapon systems Sa-12 and Sa-21 being trained upon them? Cthulhu....give us a bone will ya 

[BigPlay]

You might want to avoid such broad statements. Given the proper engagement conditions, the SA-12 could kill an SR-71, and I doubt any sane Blackbird driver would knowingly get anywhere near one of the newer SA-21 systems. These systems are designed to kill high-speed/high-altitude targets, and they do it pretty well. The B-70 program wasn't cancelled just because we couldn't affort all that white paint. It was cancelled because the AF saw the hand writing on the wall. High altitude flight (unless you're able to go hypersonic at near exoatmospheric altitudes) has gotten just plain dangerous.    This is why stealth technology, especially for big strategic bomb trucks like the B-2, has become so crucial.

Ummm wasn't the SR decommissioned back in the 90's . When it was flying recon it still was immune to SAMs.Much like the days of the cold war the Russians are a step behind in counter measures.

The XB-70 program was killed first because of it's expense I attended a XB-70 program and pilot's reunion a couple of years ago at Edwards AFB. A lot of the panel discussion was rather boring but the cancellation of said project was due to a few things. First cost was paramount. The plane was very expensive . Second the Russians put the MiG 25 in the mix. The MiG 25 was designed with the XB-70 in mind. The ultimate toolshedder Curtis Le may was not for the SR at all, he wanted the money to go to the XB-70 program.

The XB-70 had a huge part in the demise of the Soviet Union even though it wasn't produced. It cause the Russians to spend huge amounts of money to combat it. The MiG 25 program I believe was an extremely expensive one for the Russians. When it came down to it the MiG 25 was a huge wast of resources.

[Masherbrum]

Proven? Hah! I would love to see an ounce of proof that would stand for so much as a second in court. Your drug-scarred mind may have conjured some delusion as to who I am and what my intelligence level may be, but at the end of the day, it is just that: Delusion. Now, before I go on beating a child (well, a child in the mind though not in body) I will step out of this thread. I shall not keep such distasteful company, even on an internet forum.

Alright, heres the background.

Last night, I was going to spend the night at my girlfriends house, and go to school with her in the morning. Well, I had to wait until her parents got home, (At 10:30) and I couldnt get a ride. So I had to take the bus. So, I grab my school bag for the next day and head down to the bus stop. At around 10:32(pm), I see these two big hawaiian guys walking towards me. Ive been in Hawaii long enough to know I was about to get mugged. So, as is my standard practice, I unzip the sleeve pocket of my leather jacket, remove the 5-inch thumb-assist knife I keep there, and move it to my side pocket for easy accesability. They get down there, and theyre acting friendly, but like I said, I know better. So with one hand on a knife and the other on my wallet I returned their small talk. Then, at around 10:34pm, it happened. He said "Nice to meet you", and shook my hand. I returned the hand shake, taking my hand off of my knife for a crucial second. As soon as our hands parted, he threw the first blow, connecting clearly with the right side of my face. Surprised me, as I wasnt expecting it QUITE then, but I wasn't hurt. In under a second I had my knife out, extended, and within centimeters of his throaght. I was ready to deliver a lethal blow, and would enjoy it SO much. But then my concience kicked in. "You want to get into the Air Force Academy! This MIGHT be self defence, but if it is considered excessive force, you will NEVER get in!" So, I retracted the knife, and attempted a retreat from the fight, knowing that while I would have NO problems leaving them both unconcious, I might just get annoyed enough to USE the knife. With the knife safely back in my pocket I made my retreat. As I attempted to, he put another blow to my face. Again, no pain. This guy was pretty stupid, he didnt realise that punching a guy in the cheeck would cause no pain, as it connects only with bone. I actually laughed in his face at this point, and again made a retreat. They thought to themselves "We've got a 15 year old, 140lb white kid here, late at night. Don't let him go, he should be EASY to take down". They were wrong. I looked over my left shoulder just in time to take a blow to the left cheeck, which knocked me forward over the railing in front of me. I realised I was now in a favorable position. With ever bit of strength I could muster, I launched my right foot back and connected solidly with his chest. Id swear I felt a rib crack, and he fell backwards over the bus stop bench and didnt get up. The second guy was just now joining the fight, and once more, I had my knife out, ready to strike. A quick slash to his throaght, and plunge it into his back... he'll be no concern and it will be so much fun! But once more, my concience kicked in. "Even if IT self-defense, you will still have killed two people" (If I had stabbed them, they WOULD die. Without question.) "And the Air Force Academy will STILL see that!" So, once more, I begrudgingly closed my blade and returned it to my pocket. I hopped over the afformentioned railing, and ran through a busy highway offramp to put some distance between me and them, just enough to call the police. I decided to trust the police to get there in time to apprehend the bast@rds. It didnt happen. The guy I kicked got up, and stumbled away, followed by his friend. On the way, they stopped to pickup my school bag, and my i-Pod, which I lost in the scuffle. I started to follow them, but realised if it came to blows again, it could be said I was following them with the intent to attack. So, I could only sit and watch as they escaped with my things.

In the end, the police have YET to find them, even though I gave a perfect description, and even one guys first name! They got away with my homework, (I'm serious!) and the Algebra II book I needed to study for a test today, as well as my i-Pod. Im fairly certain that guy cracked a rib, and I got out with a stiff neck, a busted blood vessle right next to my right eye, and a cut lip, but surprisingly absolutely NO pain.

So the question is: I KNOW you are going to tell me I did the right thing by simply exiting the area. But, would the airforce academy have looked down on me for killing two guys in self defense? If I HAD pursued them to see where they went, could I be brought up on aggravated assault, or some other charge if it came to blows again? Thanks.

Who's the kid now?  

EDIT:   http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,215507.0.html

You even admitted you made it up.   Which means, you're a "proven liar".   Now go back to playing pick up sticks.

[Cthulhu]

Ummm wasn't the SR decommissioned back in the 90's . When it was flying recon it still was immune to SAMs.Much like the days of the cold war the Russians are a step behind in counter measures.

The XB-70 program was killed first because of it's expense I attended a XB-70 program and pilot's reunion a couple of years ago at Edwards AFB. A lot of the panel discussion was rather boring but the cancellation of said project was due to a few things. First cost was paramount. The plane was very expensive . Second the Russians put the MiG 25 in the mix. The MiG 25 was designed with the XB-70 in mind. The ultimate toolshedder Curtis Le may was not for the SR at all, he wanted the money to go to the XB-70 program.

The XB-70 had a huge part in the demise of the Soviet Union even though it wasn't produced. It cause the Russians to spend huge amounts of money to combat it. The MiG 25 program I believe was an extremely expensive one for the Russians. When it came down to it the MiG 25 was a huge wast of resources.

This is what you said:

There was no need to fly any higher. The speed it flew at that height was enough to defeat any sam the Russians had and have.

Hence the reference to the SA-21.

The B-70's were indeed very expensive, with plenty of brazed CRES honeycomb panels and substantial titanium weldments (something that is not fun or cheap to do). But it also would have been a sitting duck against the next generation of Soviet SAMs. Had it actually been survivable, I dare say the AF would have sucked up the cost and put it into production, much as it did with the even more rediculously expensive , but supremely survivable, B-2.

You're correct that the Soviet's did pursue the MiG-25 program initially as a counter to the B-70, but with the quick demise of the B-70 program, the MiG-25 quickly became "the answer to a question nobody asked." Full scale production of Foxbat started 2 years after the only surviving B-70 was grounded for good. The Russians could have scrapped the program and given up very little in real capability (with the exception perhaps of the photo-recon variants). IMO they continued with the plane purely for the bragging rights vis a vis the endless "pissing contest" with the Americans. (and to export to surrogate states who also felt the need to "compensate"  )

[Cthulhu]

And were there incidents of the weapon systems Sa-12 and Sa-21 being trained upon them? Cthulhu....give us a bone will ya 

Can't say Angus. You're a good guy. I'd really hate to have to kill you.   

j/k

[BigPlay]

This is what you said:Hence the reference to the SA-21.

The B-70's were indeed very expensive, with plenty of brazed CRES honeycomb panels and substantial titanium weldments (something that is not fun or cheap to do). But it also would have been a sitting duck against the next generation of Soviet SAMs. Had it actually been survivable, I dare say the AF would have sucked up the cost and put it into production, much as it did with the even more rediculously expensive , but supremely survivable, B-2.

You're correct that the Soviet's did pursue the MiG-25 program initially as a counter to the B-70, but with the quick demise of the B-70 program, the MiG-25 quickly became "the answer to a question nobody asked." Full scale production of Foxbat started 2 years after the only surviving B-70 was grounded for good. The Russians could have scrapped the program and given up very little in real capability (with the exception perhaps of the photo-recon variants). IMO they continued with the plane purely for the bragging rights vis a vis the endless "pissing contest" with the Americans. (and to export to surrogate states who also felt the need to "compensate"  )




Sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant when it was in service not the present. I believe the main componet in the XB-70's skin was stainless steel.

[Angus]

Can't say Angus. You're a good guy. I'd really hate to have to kill you.   

j/k

Well, "good" is perhaps the description. Looks like a " " though 

[Cthulhu]

NP BigPlay. 

You're right, the B-70's skin was mostly stainless steel honeycomb panels (CRES = Corrosion Resistant Steel), not bonded like most current aluminum or phenolic core, but actually brazed steel core (to handle the temperatures). BIG $$$$

I recall seeing a video somewhere of a welder welding the stainless wing skins to the fuselage joint over the entire root chord (top & bottom I think) when they made the dihedral change to the second XB-70. How'd you like to weld the length of two football fields, one inch at a time?!?   

[SgtPappy]

BTW, no one has mentioned the X-15. Granted it was rocket-powered and air-launched, with minimal endurance, but the records it set were absolutely staggering for it's time (and now ) Looking strictly at Speed/Altitude performance, everything else that's ever flown (with the possible exception of the mythical "Aurora") is a Piper Cub by comparison.

If I ask what the Aurora is, will I end up in a body bag before dawn?   

[Cthulhu]

If I ask what the Aurora is, will I end up in a body bag before dawn?   

I can tell you how the engines work, but it'll cost you most of your fingers. And you'll have to do it yourself, "Yakuza" style. 

Wanna know more?

[Ack-Ack]

I can tell you how the engines work, but it'll cost you most of your fingers. And you'll have to do it yourself, "Yakuza" style. 

Wanna know more?

If SgtPappy is the only one responsible for the payment, yeah I want to know more.


ack-ack

[Grendel]

Ummm wasn't the SR decommissioned back in the 90's . When it was flying recon it still was immune to SAMs.Much like the days of the cold war the Russians are a step behind in counter measures.

...

The MiG 25 program I believe was an extremely expensive one for the Russians. When it came down to it the MiG 25 was a huge wast of resources.

Yup, I'd say SR-71 was about as immune to aerial defence systems as U-2 was. Until it wasn't.
How many times SR-71 flew over actual warzone? How many SAMs were fired on it?

Besides, MiG-25 program gave Soviet Union fast, efficient and reliable long range interceptor and a very capable tactical reconnaissance aircraft. Remember, in the first Gulf War it was a MiG-25 that scored the first aerial kill, shooting down a F-18.

[SgtPappy]

If SgtPappy is the only one responsible for the payment, yeah I want to know more.


ack-ack

You know, not only would I take one for the team, but I could have THAT much extra time to write my future exams!
Alright, Cthulhu, go for it, tell us! 

[Strip]

Yup, I'd say SR-71 was about as immune to aerial defence systems as U-2 was. Until it wasn't.
How many times SR-71 flew over actual warzone? How many SAMs were fired on it?

Besides, MiG-25 program gave Soviet Union fast, efficient and reliable long range interceptor and a very capable tactical reconnaissance aircraft. Remember, in the first Gulf War it was a MiG-25 that scored the first aerial kill, shooting down a F-18.

The SR-71 was decommissioned because satellites could do the mission cheaper.

Shooting down a F-18 is childs play compared to intercepting the SR-71. The SR-71 was easily twice as hard to shoot down or more, they are not even in the same league. The U-2 and Sr-71 usually flew within 10,000 feet of each other over hostile territory. The Sr-71 was traveling three time faster and could easily change its speed by hundreds of mph in a short time.

Perhaps maybe....
If the Mig was in position...
If the Mig engines could be written off...
If the missile could lock on and track at max range...
If the missile could maintain a solution up to Mach 8 closure rates....

The main air to air missiles at the time had only a .3 to 1.0 mach advantage, making a tail or side profile shot nearly impossible. In all the SR-71 was fired at hundreds (approaching 1,000) of times without a single successful attempt, save a few holes on a post inspection walk around.

Strip