Author Topic: "Still fly with more damage" setting?  (Read 1610 times)

Offline Kweassa

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2009, 06:28:05 PM »
Quote
For whatever reason... experience... time in plane... AH players tend to be better shots (I believe) and instead of attacking groups of bombers for the most part players only have to deal with three at a time. Consider also that AH players for the most part dont worry about a death if they can drop even one bomber. In real life most pilots would never take half the shots we try to make online.

Truth.

(1) In usual cases, the hit chance of WW2 pilots are estimated to be around 5~10% on average (although this is a very loose estimate not withstanding differences in situation, target size, guntypes or ammunition).

(2) Luftwaffe reports estimate around 20~25 x 20mm, and 5 x 30mm hits required to bring down a heavy American bomber.

(3) Thus, if we assume a higher hit chance of around 15~20% against a larger, slower target like a heavy bomber, in theory a Bf109 armed with the MG151 would land around 40 hits, and a MK108 would land 13. For every sortie a 109 pilot would be expected to rtb with around 2~3 bomber kills... but as we already know, the truth is far from that.

(4) Therefore, it is only reasonable to assume that the conditions we meet in the way we fly and fight against bombers in this game, is hardly comparable to what the real pilots had to face.

* If we had no range icon to figure out when we could start squeezing down the trigger and still expect reasonable amount of hits
* If we had to regularly face bombers in the high altitudes over 25k where maneuvering and accelerating becomes extremely difficult
* If we had to jump into overlapping formations of over 20, 50, even 100 bombers with guns blazing everywhere
* If we had only one life to live, and had to struggle to survive to fly and fight another day

 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 06:39:45 PM by Kweassa »

Offline guncrasher

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2009, 09:18:38 PM »
2nd that truth. "we" even think twice about hitting a buff when we one or 2 kills, imagine if it for real  :eek:.

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Offline Oleg

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2009, 12:40:12 AM »
(1) In usual cases, the hit chance of WW2 pilots are estimated to be around 5~10% on average (although this is a very loose estimate not withstanding differences in situation, target size, guntypes or ammunition).

As far as i know, average hit rating of real WW2 pilots was about 1-2%
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2009, 01:13:16 PM »
"Games are meant to be fun and fair but fighting a war is neither." - HiTech

Offline Chalenge

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2009, 03:06:34 PM »
More here: http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/fuselage.htm

Picture #7 on page 2 is Sweet Pea which was reported by Andy Rooney to have been the most heavily damaged bomber to ever return to England (it was really serving in Italy but most reporters were covering the 8th A.F. in England like Mr Rooney).

Right below it you can see a ball turret with guns missing. Most guns from bombers serving in Italy never made it home because the crews would toss them into the Adriatic to get rid of any weight owing to the fact that almost every mission the bombers would be leaking fuel and lacking power.

And the next time you are near Arlington stop by and salute the only ball turret gunner to be awarded the Medal of Honor:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?GRid=21435&page=gr
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:17:59 PM by Chalenge »
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Offline Simba

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2009, 05:02:20 PM »
To Maynard 'Snuffy' Smith  :salute

It wasn't only USAAF day-bombers that had to fight their way home.

On the night of 15/16 September 1940, eighteen-years-old Wireless Operator/Air Gunner Sergeant John Hannah was the dorsal gunner aboard Hampden P1355 'B' of No.83 Squadron RAF, one of fifteen bombers sent to attack invasion barges gathering in Antwerp. His aircraft was hit by flak over the target, caught fire and burned so fiercely that the lower fuselage began to melt and the ventral gunner fell out; luckily, his parachute opened and he landed safely. Next to leave was the navigator, who realised the aircraft wouldn't last much longer. He also made it OK. Both became POWs.

Meanwhile, Hannah informed his pilot over the intercom, 'The aircraft is on fire, sir.'

'Is it very bad?'

'Bad, but not too bad.'

And then the little Scotsman began to fight the fire. With everything he had. It took him twenty minutes to heave the blazing ammunition drums overboard and put all the fires out, during which time another 83 Squadron pilot, Guy Gibson, saw the crippled Hampden "attracting all the flak as flames and sparks came out like the wrong end of a rocket hanging in the air." It was so hot that the pilot felt the heat radiating from the armoured bulkhead behind him.

Eventually, Hannah informed his pilot 'the fire is out, sir' and crawled back past the wreckage to his radio to attempt a position fix. No joy, the fire had destroyed the radio and had roasted the two carrier pigeons carried for emergencies. Ninety minutes later, the aircraft landed back at Scampton and the pilot and Hannah exited it quickly. When an airfield guard shone a torch onto Hannah it became obvious that he was in a bad way and he was immediately transported to a nearby Service hospital.

Hannah recovered sufficiently to attend an investiture at Buckingham Palace, where the King himself presented him with the Victoria Cross. He never regained his full fitness status and served as a ground instructor until he was discharged with tuberculosis in December 1942. Living on a disability pension, he was hard put to support his family - he had three infant daughters - and he died on 9 June 1947. Twenty years later, his widow and daughters presented his VC to 83 Squadron, then flying Vulcans at Scampton, on permanent loan.

 :salute all those airmen who fought to get their aircraft home against the odds. And John Hannah, the youngest airman ever to be awarded a Victoria Cross.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 05:21:04 PM by Simba »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2009, 06:20:36 PM »
By the way the Medal of Honor is often referred to as the Congressional Medal of Honor because it is awarded by the Department of Defense "in the name of Congress" but it is a mistake to do so. It is proper to call it the "Medal of Honor." That site did at least get that wrong.
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Offline oakranger

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2009, 02:02:18 AM »
On the first page, last pix.  German launch a rocket at them?
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Offline ink

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2009, 02:23:25 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

More here: http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/fuselage.htm

after reading every story there, If they are truths,(why would they lie?) I am absolutely positive our bombers here in AH, are way to easy to take out, seems like 50 cal, would not be enough. unless it was a whole LOT of them.

some amazing pics  :salute

Offline Chalenge

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2009, 04:51:08 AM »
Concerning the use of 50 cal I would have to disagree. You seem to be saying that American bombers were better built than any other plane in the war (50 cals did shoot down German and Japanese bombers). I will say that the way these bombers are most succesfully killed in AH is unlike any way they would have been killed in WWII (ignoring the American versus American aircraft types) mostly because fighters can and do use 100% power all the time but the same is true of the bombers. The way I kill bombers is extremely high angles extremely high velocities and the most difficult approach I can make on them. I think sitting on the tail of a bomber with 50 cals blazing should result in a dead fighter but I have no doubt that four to eight 50 cals would drop an American bomber even from dead six. 50 cals are not light weight guns and they are very effective even on the heaviest of armored planes.
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Offline thndregg

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2009, 07:53:54 AM »
The way I kill bombers is extremely high angles extremely high velocities and the most difficult approach I can make on them.

Having been on the recieving end of many patient attackers guns, I can attest to this truth. It is very possible, and I gun pretty decent in a B17.
Former C.O. 91st Bombardment Group (Heavy)
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: "Still fly with more damage" setting?
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2009, 08:19:59 AM »
Re50 cal bomber kills - you may be correct that the aircraft structure is hard to destroy, but there were young boys and men inside who are not as durable. Same with control cables - it was the aircrafts most vunerable area. And as you already know, the human body doesn't fair well against the 50 cal slug.

A lot of bombers went down flyable but their crew was dead. :(
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