Aircaft Ordinance Historical Requirement

[Strip]

Actually I am asking for exactly what boomerlu said. Given that there is documentation that the loadout was designed and tested by the manufacturer, I don't see a reason to not include it.

Given HTC track record on things like field modifications and aircraft performance I sincerely doubt you will get your wish....

Not that I wouldn't like it or it wouldn't be awesome to have some historically available loadouts...

Strip

[Masherbrum]

Given some of the recent threads about requests/information about different aircraft loadout's got me thinking. I wasn't able to find anything using the search button so please excuse me if this has been discussed before, but my question is this;

Given that this is not a World War 2 historical game why is there a requirement for a specific loadout to have been used in WW2 to have it included in Aces High?

I'm not trying to be silly or contrite, I understand that a lot of work and effort has to go into modeling the ordinance when HTC builds a new plane. I also understand that there are limits to the ordinance model weather we're talking about the old model or the new model. And I am sure we'll see some exciting new stuff as the new Ord model starts to be used as the other parts fall into place.

I was just curious if there was more to it, or if it's just simply a point for clear delineation between what's allowed and what's not.

Thanks, and flame away if need be!

Don't drink and fly.   City Ordinances apply.   

[Baumer]

For the record, I don't think HTC will be doing this, but I wanted to have a discussion about it.

I don't think the addition of any aircraft or ordnance truly changes game play. Rather, the good example that you and others constantly bring to the game, improves game play more than any widget that gets added.
 
From my perspective it's a odd point to argue that this would take away from the immersion factor given that in the MA's, a P-38 is just as likely to be shot down by an allied plane as an axis one. And a torpedo carrying B-25C is much more technically correct than a B-25C dive bombing at an angle greater than 33 degrees with a 1000lbs bomb (see chart).



Actually I think that we could use more of the "historically used" smaller bomb loads for most of the bombers. I'm sure we've all seen documents about how often 100lbs to 250lbs bombs were used and more of those types of loadouts would make it easier for CM's to limit the ordnance in special events.

[boomerlu]

Mmmm the smaller bomb loads could help with carpet bombing cities in the new strat system.

[Baumer]

Thank you Karaya, your tireless (and repetitive) work as part of the bbs spelling police has not gone unnoticed. I will endeavor to never run afoul of the ordnance ordinance again.

[Boxboy]

Thank you Karaya, your tireless (and repetitive) work as part of the bbs spelling police has not gone unnoticed. I will endeavor to never run afoul of the ordnance ordinance again.

  well said  .   I spent 50k training one these "spelling police" and my grammer and spelling weren't so bad that he didn't accept the money to go to school 

[Ack-Ack]

I don't quite follow Guppy35, so you think players would be upset if a P-38 were carrying a torpedo in the MA's?

As a dedicated P-38 flyer, I would be against allowing P-38s carrying torpedoes.  They never used them operationally and shouldn't be allowed to carry them in the game.  There was also a P-38 tested with a field mod of 6x. 50 calibers but never used operationally, should the P-38 in game be allowed this configuration?  I surely hope not since it was never used operationally. 

However, I would like the perked option of being able to take 2x 2,000 pound bombs as Lightnings did use this load out occasionally in level bombing missions.  As long as the load out saw operational use, then I'd be for it.  Otherwise, you open the door for ordnance loadouts that were never used.  Another example would be 20mm cannons on standard F6F-5 Hellcats when only specialized units like the F6F-5N night fighter squadrons used them.  This loadout shouldn't be allowed since normal Hellcats never used this configuration.

Keep the ordnance configurations to historical operational usage.


ack-ack

[Baumer]

I am not asking for field mods, but manufacturer designed and tested ordnance options.

Again my point is that since Aces High is not about recreating World War 2 historically in the main arena's, shouldn't technically accurate equipment options be allowed even if they were not used in combat.

I understand HTC's policy about decisions for including aircraft in the game, I was just wondering if there was a different justification for selecting ordnance in the game. I can understand using the "used in combat" to provide a clear delineation for what to include/exclude and that's probably the only reason that it is used.

I just think that it excludes some options that would "fun" or "interesting" for people to use on many different aircraft, that are all ready in the game.

And I agree that with the implementation of the new ordnance model we could see some perked options that will be interesting.

As for your point about the F6F-5N, I'm not clear if you are for or against that as a perk ord option, but I've been doing some research about them.  As most everyone is aware the 20mm configuration had issues and lack of flash suppressors meant that many F6F-5N's that were delivered with 20mm's had them removed. However, if you look at the USN combat statistics you'll see that the few planes that were equipped with them fired 4,000 rounds of 20mm ammunition in 1945 (the only year that data is available). That's a fair amount of ammo for 2 or 3 night fighter squadrons to use in 3 to 6 plane detachments. I am continuing to research it and try and find out exactly how many were used.

[Ack-Ack]

As for your point about the F6F-5N, I'm not clear if you are for or against that as a perk ord option, but I've been doing some research about them.  As most everyone is aware the 20mm configuration had issues and lack of flash suppressors meant that many F6F-5N's that were delivered with 20mm's had them removed. However, if you look at the USN combat statistics you'll see that the few planes that were equipped with them fired 4,000 rounds of 20mm ammunition in 1945 (the only year that data is available). That's a fair amount of ammo for 2 or 3 night fighter squadrons to use in 3 to 6 plane detachments. I am continuing to research it and try and find out exactly how many were used.

I would be against adding perked 20mm cannon packages for the Hellcat since they weren't used on the regular F6F-5 Hellcats and only used on the F6F-5N night fighters even though the F6F-5 factory specs allowed for 20mm cannons.


ack-ack

[rough_wood]

haha so you guys are always like this, it wasn't just my thread. Unreal

I like the idea, but I'm not sure how far it should be taken. The B25 with torpedos designed in, and in the manuals sounds like a good candidate. However it will make a very fuzzy line as to what is, and isnt, allowed.

I like the F6F 20mm also.

Once you start putting torps on 38's it seems like it's going a little too far.

Plus we don't even have all the used ords, like firebombing the town or cities.

[Ack-Ack]

What would be cool and only as a perked option, the ability for the P-38 to carry troops.  The P-38 was capable of carrying two personel carrier pods that were slung under each wing and carried one person each.  Was used often to ferry pilots around in the PTO, so it would be historicaly accurate in the sense of the P-38 being able to carry two troops.  Just would need to land 5 near a town and let them out but if we really wanted to be historical, the troops would propably go after the person who designed the pods instead of capturing the town.  From pilots that were flown in these pods, the most common comment was the hope that whoever designed the pods was forced to ride in one and experience Hell first hand.

ack-ack

[Simba]

"From pilots that were flown in these pods, the most common comment was the hope that whoever designed the pods was forced to ride in one and experience Hell first hand."

Fairey designed some for the Barracuda; after testing, it was decided that the mental strain suffered by the occupants rendered them unfit for duty and the idea was abandoned. I don't know how many people travelled in those P-38 pods but I expect they were left in the same state.

Leave the troops alone to travel aboard more suitable transports.