Author Topic: before i head off for a few hours  (Read 834 times)

Offline stucknmud

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before i head off for a few hours
« on: December 03, 2009, 07:30:32 AM »
Rather quick simple question-er problem. I can't beat a spit in a f4u for my life. even zekes and zeros i get like 30% of the time however spits no way, somehow i end up low and slow, or their on my six and gaining and i actuly don't know how to use the f4u's advanages.Can't out run the spit half the time or simply cant shake the darn thing. suggestions? I encounter so many spits, i want to be able to take out at least 7/10 that i encounter right now its more like a...3/10 :cry

Offline HighGTrn

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 08:29:01 AM »
I'm not a great Corsair stick by any stretch of the imagination but I have had good luck against them as long as keep an eye on my SA. 

1.  Gauge their E state vs. your's.
2.  If you have superior E, keep it at all cost.
3.  Take some time, bait him and see how he reacts to your maneuvers (this will allow you to ascertain his skill level).
4.  If he's clearly a newer pilot or seems like he doesn't know what he's doing, I get aggressive while maintaining my superior E state.
5.  Go for snapshots and deflection shots but watchout for the HOs.
6.  If you manage to saddle up, try and kill him quick, if he's slippery, go to the vertical and reset.

If he's co-E or has a superior E state, I extend and re-engage when I have the advantage.

Spits are tough because they are great planes in here.  The good news is you get a bunch of dweebs flying them.  However, I always treat a spit as if he's being flown by a seasoned vet until otherwise.  They have great acceleration but for the most part, I think the Corsair has better top speed and zoom climb ability.  Also in your favor is the awesome instantaneous turn rate the Corsair has.  Just don't get slow and turning with a spit unless you can fly it like AKDogg.  Finally, the Corsair has better high speed handling so keep the fight fast.

Good luck.
in game call sign: S1n1ster

Offline morfiend

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2009, 12:44:37 PM »
 There are several trainers who fly the corsairs regulary,Bigrat can be found most nights in the training arena,look him up I'm sure he'd be glad to help you fly the corsair better.

  :salute

Offline stucknmud

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2009, 04:41:51 PM »
awesome, more input wolcome. anytips on how to fight hte spit in the verical?

Offline StokesAk

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2009, 06:21:03 PM »
Cosairs can get low and slow fast, they have ulta hover flaps which maked them very hard to fight low and slow. If you do get low and slow with one, use your vertical power as the cosair is a very bad climber with its flaps out, if you taking it into a few Yo-Yos then it should loose alot of E and you can repostion to setup and kill it.
Strokes

Offline Bosco123

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2009, 07:04:55 PM »
Flaps are your freind with no E. If they have the E, a very simple vertical reverse and you will behind him and you can make quick work of him b/c most of the time, spits have the mentality that they can do circles around a F4U and when in fact it is not true. They then tend to lose all of their E and that is when you begin to beat them in many ways more than not, but be careful of their E as well. As good as the F4U is low and slow, it's E retention is not as great as a spitfire has, and any decent spit pilot knows that the only way to beat a F4U is to beat it with the E advantage.

Hope that helps.
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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 01:13:44 AM »
If Saxman posts here, be sure to read all of what he has to say. He's a pro  :salute
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline mtnman

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 02:37:41 PM »
Cosairs can get low and slow fast, they have ulta hover flaps which maked them very hard to fight low and slow. If you do get low and slow with one, use your vertical power as the cosair is a very bad climber with its flaps out, if you taking it into a few Yo-Yos then it should loose alot of E and you can repostion to setup and kill it.

I think you're giving him the opposite advice he's looking for.  He's trying to kill spits while in an F4U.
MtnMan

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Offline mtnman

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 02:40:12 PM »
Rather quick simple question-er problem. I can't beat a spit in a f4u for my life. even zekes and zeros i get like 30% of the time however spits no way, somehow i end up low and slow, or their on my six and gaining and i actuly don't know how to use the f4u's advanages.Can't out run the spit half the time or simply cant shake the darn thing. suggestions? I encounter so many spits, i want to be able to take out at least 7/10 that i encounter right now its more like a...3/10 :cry

I'm on my way out, will try to respond later.

When do you normally fly?  Maybe we could meet up for some 1 on 1 work.
MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline StokesAk

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 05:08:00 PM »
I think you're giving him the opposite advice he's looking for.  He's trying to kill spits while in an F4U.

oops
Strokes

Offline stucknmud

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 06:11:04 PM »
will its the weekend just giv me a time, if i catcht he post ill be there :bolt:

Offline mtnman

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 09:10:33 PM »
will its the weekend just giv me a time, if i catcht he post ill be there :bolt:

I'll be on tonight and tomorrow night, probably between 10pm and 1 or 2am Central.  If you can swing it, just log into the MA and PM me, I'll head into the TA with you.

I don't generally log into the arena's during the day.
MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline stucknmud

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 05:42:40 PM »
1, 2am at night? if so ill likely be there at one :old:

Offline HighGTrn

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2009, 03:21:06 PM »
Going to the vertical is great because you can maneuver and turn into another vector without losing very much net E.  Let's say the spit is turning hard and I'm not gonna be able to get inside his turn, I have several choices at this point.  I can lag roll, keep my E up reset for another run.  This allows me to keep up my E make him burn his at an exceptional rate (cause he's still pulling on that stick to come around).  Hopefully, you'll be able to get inside his turn the second time around.  Remember too that the closer you are to him, the more are gonna have to pull to get inside his turn.  The further away, your turn distance is way shorter than his.  With him showing that big profile of his plane, a D400 or D300 shot should not be hard.

The other vertical maneuver I often do is turning in the vertical.  This move is simply an exaggerated lag roll.  Unlike a normal lag roll where I make a moderate sized roll, In this move, I pull straight up (90 degrees) and stay there until I get down to about 200 mph.  There, roll to point my lift vector to where I want to pull then I pull over in the direction he's going.  In this case, I'm turning by rolling with ailerons vs. elevators.  Of course I'm gonna have to use some elevators to pull over but the net E you lose doing this is much less than if you simply just try and follow him through a flat turn.  Again, the point here is to make him burn E reacting to you while you bank yours.  For every maneuver, you want to be stingy on E.  This is sounds like a very conservative way to fight but remember that you never know who's in that Spit.

Lastly, if the spit you encounter starts to maneuver in the vertical with you, watch out!  The moves I just explained are moves I use in the Pony and 38 and most of the time, it works well for me.  Like I said, I don't fly the Corsair much but I would wager it would work there too with the F4's great zoom climb, roll rate and uber flaps.

I only watch and save clips of me getting shot down (which is a lot) and I've learned one over all lesson.  Every time I loose a fight, it was because I made a mistake.  The fight to win or lose is all up to me, not my opponent.  From the very start of the fight to the final shot, to win, you must make fewer mistakes than your opponent.  You must judge E better than him, you must be more accurate. You must know when to take the shot vs. laying off for better position.  Even the ubiquitous HO is subject to this philosophy as well.  100% of the times I have been HO was because I allowed myself to be HO'd.  I think analyzing your fights with this philosophy in mind will make your lessons learned more impactful.

Good luck.
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Offline diaster

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Re: before i head off for a few hours
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2009, 04:43:24 PM »
Going to the vertical is great because you can maneuver and turn into another vector without losing very much net E.  Let's say the spit is turning hard and I'm not gonna be able to get inside his turn, I have several choices at this point.  I can lag roll, keep my E up reset for another run.  This allows me to keep up my E make him burn his at an exceptional rate (cause he's still pulling on that stick to come around).  Hopefully, you'll be able to get inside his turn the second time around.  Remember too that the closer you are to him, the more are gonna have to pull to get inside his turn.  The further away, your turn distance is way shorter than his.  With him showing that big profile of his plane, a D400 or D300 shot should not be hard.

The other vertical maneuver I often do is turning in the vertical.  This move is simply an exaggerated lag roll.  Unlike a normal lag roll where I make a moderate sized roll, In this move, I pull straight up (90 degrees) and stay there until I get down to about 200 mph.  There, roll to point my lift vector to where I want to pull then I pull over in the direction he's going.  In this case, I'm turning by rolling with ailerons vs. elevators.  Of course I'm gonna have to use some elevators to pull over but the net E you lose doing this is much less than if you simply just try and follow him through a flat turn.  Again, the point here is to make him burn E reacting to you while you bank yours.  For every maneuver, you want to be stingy on E.  This is sounds like a very conservative way to fight but remember that you never know who's in that Spit.

Lastly, if the spit you encounter starts to maneuver in the vertical with you, watch out!  The moves I just explained are moves I use in the Pony and 38 and most of the time, it works well for me.  Like I said, I don't fly the Corsair much but I would wager it would work there too with the F4's great zoom climb, roll rate and uber flaps.

I only watch and save clips of me getting shot down (which is a lot) and I've learned one over all lesson.  Every time I loose a fight, it was because I made a mistake.  The fight to win or lose is all up to me, not my opponent.  From the very start of the fight to the final shot, to win, you must make fewer mistakes than your opponent.  You must judge E better than him, you must be more accurate. You must know when to take the shot vs. laying off for better position.  Even the ubiquitous HO is subject to this philosophy as well.  100% of the times I have been HO was because I allowed myself to be HO'd.  I think analyzing your fights with this philosophy in mind will make your lessons learned more impactful.

Good luck.
great advice, easy to understand and to the point
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