Survey : how many use Force feedback sticks ?

[Flench]

MSFF2 about 7 year's .

[Joc]

My MSFF2 still going strong!!! 

[Skuzzy]

My MSFF2 still going strong!!! 

That's just because of all the wool you have around it.

[Joc]

Mmmmmm wool.........nothin better to wrap your stick in,you should know that Skuzz!!!! lolol

[Halo]

Tried one a couple years ago but don't like it or them.  Somehow seems too fakey.

[hlbly]

Not quite the response I was hoping for . I asked this question for one reason . I am going to put a link up to a reply on a different ffb thread please give it a glance .http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,273505.msg3530250.html#msg3530250

[pervert]

I have a MSFF2 read through the other thread you posted, I have my stick set up to my own preferences in game depending on how you had the forces set up in game would this not affect what you've been proposing regards increased stick force to simulate heavier loads? ie If I had my stick set up to max then I wouldn't notice a difference? Think there should be more effects for ff in game I flew without stall effect for a few months and my game dropped off a lot in slow fights without it I couldn't tell what the plane was doing in stalls.

[FiLtH]

   Hlbly my stick doesnt feel the same way as it does in other games. It has a looser feel to it. It used to feel real solid, but back quite a few years ago after a patch, it definately got worse. I tried all the settings and still not what it used to be. Ive just learned to live with it.

[hlbly]

I have a MSFF2 read through the other thread you posted, I have my stick set up to my own preferences in game depending on how you had the forces set up in game would this not affect what you've been proposing regards increased stick force to simulate heavier loads? ie If I had my stick set up to max then I wouldn't notice a difference? Think there should be more effects for ff in game I flew without stall effect for a few months and my game dropped off a lot in slow fights without it I couldn't tell what the plane was doing in stalls.

By adjusting your level of effects you can fine tune the level of the effects . How ever if you are not receiving any effects or the incorrect ones you have problems . The way I would set mine up would be to shut off the guns totally . I don't want it interfering with my aim . weapons on about 20 % so I get a subtle indication of when my ords drop . Buffet full on because it helps you ride the edge of the envelope  . I want to feel a very gentle shake as it sets in So I can ride the very edge of the buffet . Shaking like mad as It gets full on to know I am about to screw up. Stall about half way So I can tell when I am about to depart control , but not so it completely loses return to center  effect ever , I personally don't like that . Trim I would play with , but probably start at it halfway . I think it would push the stick in opposite direction of way you need to trim , making return to center not to the center . So to keep plane in trim all you need to do is adjust it so return to center is truly to the center . What you have now is buffet being linked to stall horn instead of that awful clattering sound . Well when your stall horn begins to sound your plane is not really buffeting . This gives you the q to do the wrong thing . See what I believe you want to happen is to ride the stall almost to the point of loss of control . You would know this by how sloppy it feels as it decreases return to center . You want to ride the buffet just to the edge of where it starts . When you get buffet you lose turn performance more you buffet less well you turn . There is no buffet effect coming from the game at all . Enable or disable that individual  effect , it makes no difference in what you feel .It does not work at all . You get the shaking buffet effect from the stall horn before your plane begins to truly buffet . Not a loss of return to center as it should be . If you got the correct feedback you would know by feel you are just beginning to get where you want to be with the regards to a stall . Not just past where you want to be with regards to a buffet .Wrong information leading to wrong action with your controls . Once again buffet is the most important effect there is IMHO , if you can ride just at the edge of the buffet you are turning to the best of the planes ability . With stall coming in second . If you can get just right to the edge of the stall but not go over you are once again getting the most out of your ride . Now damage is the best effect in this game , no other I have ever tried does it like these guys do . I can tell from what direction I got shot form they way they did it here . Airspeed is something else i would need to play with awhile . The individual sliders to adjust feedback would lessen the amount of feedback not the type . You can then adjust it to where the effects that are most important to you you feel the most . I hope that helps please feel free to ask any others or for me to clarify any points I have not made clear . I helped alot of people setup there force feedback in AW days . I think i am the one that got filth to go that route . One of my squadmates in ACCS in AW days was a famous race car driver named Jose Lagarza First non American to race in the Indy 500 . I helped him setup his CH FX stick so he could feel the important stuff ,and not the mindless rumble pad effects that AW had , everything but stall , buffet and weapons was just rumble pad crap . I am not like alot of the old AW guys . I only miss a few things about AW Almost all of it about the community . AH2 game is far superior to anything AW ever had in regards to the actual game . Except two things . Stall and buffet effects in FFB .If htc fixed it so buffet was actually linked to the buffet sound , and there was a stall effect . I would miss nothing . Aw spins were ridiculous . You flew thru nme planes . Planes flew on rails . Guns were all lasers . You could just remove parts of the plane to give you an unobstructed view except for straight ahead . Very gamey . The absolute worst thing though was the guys running the show just didn't give a dam about the product . They would heap band aid after band aid on open wounds . Ignore crap that just really sucked . I was hurt before AW died , but I bet they never got the spin code right . They just didn't care . IMO .I tried WB's too but their whole FFB was rumble pad . It gave you no  useful information . I wish HTC would really look at fixing this . I think they almost have it better then anyone ever has . Buffet feels exactly right it is how ever linked to the wrong sound . The way hit damage is given to you amazed me at first and still occasionally saves me as I know know in a fairly accurate way where the unseen picker is at . The weapons release lets you know exactly when your bomb is free of airframe and you can move controls with out moving impact point .

[hlbly]

   Hlbly my stick doesnt feel the same way as it does in other games. It has a looser feel to it. It used to feel real solid, but back quite a few years ago after a patch, it definately got worse. I tried all the settings and still not what it used to be. Ive just learned to live with it.

Too bad filth , I am sure I am the one that got you to try FFB to begin with back in the days when I was teaching you how to not spin out in FR . Instead of how to recover once you got into one  or am I wrong? I took a pretty good whack to my head and I don't always remember correctly . The thing is filth I think they are close to having the best FFB routines ever . Look at post above . A bit rambling , but there is so much I want to discuss . This is the first time I have brought up the subject and and had good comments and questions . Usually I got alot of weak jokes like "when I saw buffet in the title of the thread I thought it was about lunch" . The two people who fly in here that have been to my home , have both given me some insights about it . The first guy explained to me  a little bit about the mindset of engineers in general , and a bit about the engineers that are HTC in particular . He told me that it may never be fixed , I hope he is wrong but he gives me advice on a great many things and he has not been wrong once .He is a guy of long standing in this community in both AW and AH . Respected and liked . don't get me wrong , he said nothing bad about them he just helped me to understand a mindset , I am not really familiar with or used to . The other guy is new to the whole sim thing , but he is a programmer , who did his thesis on haptics . I think thesis is the correct word . He is helping me understand how it works , not just how it should feel to me . This is a work in progress but he is patient and a good guy . He is explaining to me the possible problems etc. he has given me an idea of POSSIBLE amount of time and effort to fix it . It didn't do anything to indicate that the guy who explained engineers was wrong in his assessment that it MIGHT never be fixed . How ever I am a little bit stubborn about quiting on something I have started . This thread and another give me hope because it is being discussed instead of just dismissed by people with bad jokes who have no idea what they are talking about . my friend and thnx  for participating .

[lowZX14]

Ok, so here's the golden question.  Is it worth paying the money for the Logitech setup or just stick to my CH stick and throttle and Saitek pedals plan?

[hlbly]

My thoughts on this are this . If HTC is not going to fix FFB go CH . Unless you fly alot of other flight sims . If they plan on fixing it and stick proves to be durable you wont be sorry . Best setup I ever had was CH FX stick , ch pro throttle , Ch pedals . I bought that setup except originally i had a standard ch throttle. A guy named Jose legarza sent me the  pro throttle to replace my ch throttle I had . After I helped him set up his FX stick to get the most useful information possible out of it in AW . It did the same thing for him it did for me let me get right to the point of spinning out of control , without going over . The pro throttle had a few more switches but more importantly it made my stick and throttle fully programable . I got the setup just to use in AirWarrior . Later I found out he was a famous Mexican race car driver in the INDY leagues . The way I understand the G940 is going to work is to not try to redo what the designers intended but to maximise what they intend for you to feel . An absolutely heady prospect IMHO .  I know that HTC can give us the best FFB routines going . The damage effect is spectacular . Letting you know from what direction an unseen enemy is hitting you from . Every other sim I have ever played i turned it off as it was just rumble pad gimmick crap that told me nothing . I know it isn't a very solid answer but it is the best I can do . What we need is one of the guys that decide what is going to be a priority , and who I assume will fix it to tell us if they plan on letting it stay this way or fix it ? If it stays this way you will just get garbage in garbage out  . If they fix it you will be delighted with how close to the edge you will be able to fly not just your favorites but any plane in the set .

[trax1]

I have a Saitek Cyborg Evo FF and I absolutely don't recommend them, only reason I went with the FF was because I couldn't find that model online that wasn't the FF model. 

I've had mine for 2 years, with the FF you have a separate power cord that needs to be plug in for the stick to work and about 6 months after I got it it would just loss power while playing with it, the blue lights on the buttons were still on, but all the power to the stick was gone, so I'd have to unplug it, plug it back in, & then calibrate it, not to good if your in a fight.

I don't even use the FF function on it anymore, I have it all turned down, it gets kinda annoying, and it's just one more thing to break.

[FiLtH]

 Ya Hlbly you are the one who taught me how to fly real slow flying using the fuel tanks as a slalom.

  I have everything except stall and trim set to zero. Stall and trim are set to 50%

[airguard]

I still got mine and I love it, then again I had 2 ffb1, and 2 ffb2, still got 1 ffb2.