P-51H

[Westy]

"Bah, if we get the 51h and the f8f, I want a P-38K!"

Unlike the 51H and the F8F the 38K never saw production let alone deployment
to squadrons in-theater before VJ day

[Sol75]

I hope your joking Oakranger....if not, here.

The P-38K-1-LO is the rarest variant, only one was ever built from scratch, another was modified from different model. So rare in fact that only photos that exist are of the heavily modified version. There are no know photos of the scratch built P-38K, the best preforming P-38 of the war. It had a initial takeoff climb of over 4,800 fpm and service ceiling of 45,000 feet or more! It was predicted to break 450 mph at critical alt while having 10-15% greater range.

This is the hot rod special of P-38s!

Strip

Yep, actually I believe it was closer to 5500fpm, with WEP.

As far as loadout/guns  standard 38 gun package 4x50 cal, 1x20mm Hispano.  Loadout? dunno, I don't believe in those ugly green things that go boom.. so not sure on that one.

Sol

[Ack-Ack]

I am not a P-38 driver.  so i really do not know much about them.  what kind of gun package and payload did it have?

Same gun and ordnance package as the regular P-38s.  

This is a photo of the test bed P-38K (heavily modified P-38E).


The test bed, P-38K-1-LO, was flown to Elgin Field for evaluation by the USAAF and flown against the P-51B and P-47D.  The results were rather surprising with the P-38K beating both the Mustang and Jug in every category of measured performance.  Not only did the P-38K beat the P-51B and Jug, it showed to be vastly superior to these two planes.  From a standing starting on the runway, the P-38K could take off and climb to 20,000ft in 5 minutes flat.  Fully loaded had an initial climb rate of 4,800fpm (Military Power) and under WEP, over 5,000fpm was predicted.

ack-ack

[oakranger]

Same gun and ordnance package as the regular P-38s.  

This is a photo of the test bed P-38K (heavily modified P-38E).
(Image removed from quote.)

The test bed, P-38K-1-LO, was flown to Elgin Field for evaluation by the USAAF and flown against the P-51B and P-47D.  The results were rather surprising with the P-38K beating both the Mustang and Jug in every category of measured performance.  Not only did the P-38K beat the P-51B and Jug, it showed to be vastly superior to these two planes.  From a standing starting on the runway, the P-38K could take off and climb to 20,000ft in 5 minutes flat.  Fully loaded had an initial climb rate of 4,800fpm (Military Power) and under WEP, over 5,000fpm was predicted.

ack-ack

So, why didn't they put it into production?

[BnZs]

So, why didn't they put it into production?

Have you ever read "The Dilbert Principle"?

[Strip]

The War Department was unwilling to stop production while Lockheed retooled their production lines, even though it was scheduled to only take around a month.

Strip

[oakranger]

Have you ever read "The Dilbert Principle"?

no

[whels]

If a plane was in production, and in squadron service in WW2 it should be in AH eventually.

You want a P51 for MA fights? Mustang III (Brit P51B). Modified to chase V1s. would do
450mph @ 5k 

[smoe]

Didn't see any service in Korea either.  Due to the process of making it lighter and increasing its performance it was deemed to fragile for combat.  It's stress limits were considerably downgraded.

Instead, the P-51D weathered on in a ground attack role in Korea flown by the U.S., Australia and South Korea.

Probably the biggest reason the H didn't go to Korea is the D's were very cheap post WWII. The government was probably giving away the D's for nothing in order to use up the spare parts stockpiled for a Japanese invasion.

[Ack-Ack]

Probably the biggest reason the H didn't go to Korea is the D's were very cheap post WWII. The government was probably giving away the D's for nothing in order to use up the spare parts stockpiled for a Japanese invasion.

The main reason why the H didn't see any action in Korea was that it was deemed not suitable for combat in Korea.  Due to its lighter structure than the D model, the H model was considered to be more subsceptible to damage than the D and therefore unsuitable for the role it was intended to be used in (ground attack) in Korea.  The D was a proven commodity, while the H wasn't.

ack-ack

[Chalenge]

So, why didn't they put it into production?

Dogfighting isnt how wars are won because you still need bombers and by 1945 the dogfights had moved to 30k and above as escorts ran into fighter defense. In Korea the fights went even higher and the P-38 could not match the P-51 at the higher altitudes. The P-38 could fly high and it could fight but it could not fight at high alt at high speed and the fact that the American brass failed to grasp this (and some people in AH still havent) cost a lot of lives in WWII.

Aside from all that... the P-38 was the primary long range fighter in the Pacific until America moved its attention from Europe to Japan (primarily) and the P-38 production was VERY important until then AND to retool to produce the 'K' would have taken P-38s out of production for too long a period. I believe all P-38 squadrons were refitted with P-51s once the Pacific campaign received primary focus.

[Ack-Ack]

Dogfighting isnt how wars are won because you still need bombers and by 1945 the dogfights had moved to 30k and above as escorts ran into fighter defense. In Korea the fights went even higher and the P-38 could not match the P-51 at the higher altitudes. The P-38 could fly high and it could fight but it could not fight at high alt at high speed and the fact that the American brass failed to grasp this (and some people in AH still havent) cost a lot of lives in WWII.

Aside from all that... the P-38 was the primary long range fighter in the Pacific until America moved its attention from Europe to Japan (primarily) and the P-38 production was VERY important until then AND to retool to produce the 'K' would have taken P-38s out of production for too long a period. I believe all P-38 squadrons were refitted with P-51s once the Pacific campaign received primary focus.

wow...stick to studies at fuel conservation at 35,000ft or tests on the effects of being bitten by red scorpions because when it comes to the P-38 (history and performance) you really have no clue.

Man, the P-38 would have sucked in your vapor/fraud-ware game.

ack-ack

[Chalenge]

wow...stick to studies at fuel conservation at 35,000ft or tests on the effects of being bitten by red scorpions because when it comes to the P-38 (history and performance) you really have no clue.

Man, the P-38 would have sucked in your vapor/fraud-ware game.

ack-ack

So your one of the moonbats huh? Not surprising.

The information comes from history and you should try reading a book or two some time and you might actually have some facts to back up your urban myth. Since you arent using any facts to back up your rant I propose your an idiot.

[Ack-Ack]

So your one of the moonbats huh? Not surprising.

You know what's funny?  This is what Wiki has to say about the usage of Moonbat.

Examples of usage
A popular put down of Chalenge, an expert in high altitude fuel conservation, frequently uses "Moonbat" as a defensive response. Some have attributed this to the long lasting effects of being bitten by a red scorpion and his 'black-ops' missions for the CIA during the 1st Gulf War.

The information comes from history and you should try reading a book or two some time and you might actually have some facts to back up your urban myth. Since you arent using any facts to back up your rant I propose your an idiot.

The P-38 was designed to be a high altitude interceptor and at 28,000ft was faster than the P-51D, had a higher service ceiling than the Mustang and could out maneuver it.  P-51 with drop tanks did have a farther range but with drop tanks the P-38 was able to roam everywhere the Mustang could.  Hell, the Thunderbolt could easily out perform both the Mustang and the Lightning at high altitudes.

The only thing you got right in your previous post was the War Production Board rejecting Lockheed's request to retool their production line for the K.  Even though it would have taken less than 2 weeks, the WPB said no.  

Don't know why you mentioned the P-38 and Korea since it was largely out of the US inventory by that time, with maybe a few here and there rotting at some ANG base.  Nor know why you even brought Korea into the discussion as the P-51D was used in the ground support role and rarely conducted operations at altitudes it performed at in the ETO during World War II.

After VE-Day when the Mustangs started to show up in the Pacific in greater numbers, the P-38 units in the PTO did not give up their Lightnings for Mustangs like the 8th AF P-38s in the ETO.

Honestly, it's you that should crack a book sometime.  Like milk, it might do you good.

ack-ack

[Masherbrum]

Dogfighting isnt how wars are won because you still need bombers and by 1945 the dogfights had moved to 30k and above as escorts ran into fighter defense. In Korea the fights went even higher and the P-38 could not match the P-51 at the higher altitudes. The P-38 could fly high and it could fight but it could not fight at high alt at high speed and the fact that the American brass failed to grasp this (and some people in AH still havent) cost a lot of lives in WWII.

Aside from all that... the P-38 was the primary long range fighter in the Pacific until America moved its attention from Europe to Japan (primarily) and the P-38 production was VERY important until then AND to retool to produce the 'K' would have taken P-38s out of production for too long a period. I believe all P-38 squadrons were refitted with P-51s once the Pacific campaign received primary focus.