Author Topic: GATT: MC.205  (Read 4786 times)

-kier-

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 1999, 11:16:00 AM »
Actually I think the Sturmovik fits in as well as B17's do right now. I agree with your list of needs (for the most part) but why not go ahead and model the plane? Tactics will have to be developed anyway, regardless of target. What's more, people are attacking airfields in planes ill-equipped to do so... would the Il2 be any worse?

Finally, wouldn't they be new targets for fighters?  

funked

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 1999, 11:20:00 AM »
If we're going to have a bomber, let's have the best late-war bomber to go with the current late-war fighters.  It's going to be very difficult to get to the target with all these super fighters.  To do the job, we need something that is fast and very heavily armed.  

The A-26B/C Invader is the choice.

Both versions had the following in common:

- Top speed from 355 to 370 mph.

-  Power provided by a pair of Pratt & Whitney R2800's with 2350 hp using water injection.  At a loaded weight of 26,000 lb, this gives a power loading of 5.53 lb/hp, which is better than some famous fighters I can think of.

- Up to 4,000 lb internal bomb load, plus on the wings either 2,000 lb of bombs, 8 HVAR rockets, or 4 gun pods with 2 x .50 cal guns in each pod.

- Defensive armament was 2 x .50 cal in dorsal turret, 2 x .50 cal in ventral turret.

Solid-nose version (A-26B-50-DL and later) added 8 forward-firing .50 cal in the nose plus 3 forward-firing guns in each wing.  This is in addition to the armament described above.

Glass-nose version (A-26C-45-DT and later) added two fixed .50 cal guns in the nose, 3 forward-firing guns in each wing, and a bomb sight for high-level bombing.


Either version is a monster:
8 x 500 lb internal bomb load, between 8 and 14 .50 cal guns for strafing, plus 8 rockets or 4 x 500 lb bombs on the wings.  And once you fire all those weapons, the aircraft has very good speed and amazing climb and acceleration for a bomber.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-04-1999).]

Offline Windle

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 1999, 03:12:00 PM »
Indian,

The British Corsair you're thinking of is the F4U-1B.  It was basically the F4U-1 'birdcage' Corsair used by the British.  On initial delivery these Corsairs didn't have the clipped wing tips.  The Corsair II's were the first to come with that modification from the factory.  The F4U-1B (or Corsair I) was later retrofitted with the clipped wing tips.

The F4U-4B on the other hand never saw service with the British.  It was the 4x20mm cannon armed version of the F4U-4 Corsair.  It's primary role in combat came about during the Korean War.  My great uncle flew them with VMF-312 flying land based air support strikes.  The cannons AND extra performance would be great for AH, but again I haven't found any hard evidence that proves the F4U-4B arrived in the Pacific before WWII's end.

 

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Offline -lynx-

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 1999, 03:00:00 AM »
Il-2 was probably the first close air support aircraft ever designed for this purpose alone.

Tank busting etc came later - the idea was to provide low level constant support for attacking infantry. Not hit'n'run tactics used by P51s/P47s/Typhoons - Shturmoviks were heavily armoured which allowed them to hover over trenches ignoring small caliber AA fire. In a sense it was a grandaddy of an A10. Survivability was also legendary...

What they didn't normally face was the kind of AA implacements we have - 50 cals and bigger aiming right between the pilot's eyes  ) It might not do as well as some people hope it would in AH/WB environment unless:

(To continue on leonid's ack delay thingy)

- there's ack coming up delay(need to get timing right though);
- the troopers have to run to man their stations;
- AND there's an ability to strafe the bastards while they're running - delaying those acks coming up until 2-3 reach it;
- THEN get IL2s in cuz they'll be just perfect for strafing troops/buildings without heavy ack messing up the picture  


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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

funked

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 1999, 07:26:00 AM »
-lynx-

I still think the A-26 will be a lot more survivable than the Il-2 due to the performance.  Also it is far more heavily armed.

Offline -lynx-

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 1999, 07:54:00 AM »
funked

I'm not against A26 at all  

But if it's a med bomber we're after A20 Boston should be high up on that list - used by Allies on all fronts, including Russia...

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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF

Offline Pongo

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 1999, 09:04:00 AM »
MB5!!!!
Just on looks alone!

funked

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 1999, 09:48:00 AM »
Lynx - I agree about the A-20, but I think the A-26 (a late-war uberbomber) is more fitting considering the late-war uberfighters we have.  They're all 1944 aircraft, and the A-26 is a 1944 bomber.

Offline indian

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 1999, 11:12:00 AM »
Windle

Check this out if you can F4u-4b's while assigned to USS Sitkoh Bay (CVE-86) Flew inot combat on April 7 1945. They were of MAG-31. This is only one instance where they went into combat, which I realy dont carfe if they saw combat or not they are vintage WWII eraby being made in that time line. Remember this is a game of skill and not of reenacting history. If we were to reenact history the F4U's would have to be beefed up to maintian a 13:1 kill ratio. I like WWII airplanes all of them weather they saw combat or not, hardware dont make up much in the skill department.

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Offline Windle

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 1999, 11:27:00 AM »
Will do Indian  

I'd love to find out that the F4U-4B DID in fact see some fighting during WWII, even if it was only ground attack.  The fact that it took part at all would make a world of difference.

BTW where did you come across that information?  Right now I'll be waiting a year for my history card reels before I can confirm anything (Navy Historical Center has maybe 2 employees).  If you have another source I can check it might help me out alot.


 

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Offline fats

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 1999, 09:11:00 PM »
--- Indian: ---
. If we were to reenact history the F4U's would have to be beefed up to maintian a 13:1 kill ratio.
--- end ---

That's an argument you didn't wanna play. Brewster Buffaloes and 109s piloted by finnish pilots should then also be fudged to make them match their historical k/d. Boy it's gonna be easy for us finns to get on the top 10 in K/D...

In other words your argument makes a little sense. The arena is not WWII aircombat with WWII aircraft, it's aircombat with WWII like aircraft.


//fats


Offline leonid

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« Reply #41 on: November 06, 1999, 12:45:00 AM »
... and never the twain shall meet.

Just goes to show that WWII flight simmers are basically two groups: Open Arena and Historical Arena.


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129 IAP VVS RKKA


ingame: Raz

Offline gatt

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 1999, 01:19:00 AM »
 
Quote
If we were to reenact history the F4U's would have to be beefed up to maintian a 13:1 kill ratio

Hehe, keep the arena full of skilled Imperial Japanese pilots with N1K2-J and other late war fighters and see how your k/d ratio falls down .....

Regards,
Gatt
4th Stormo CT

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 11-08-1999).]
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline indian

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 1999, 08:48:00 AM »
Windle turns out the Corsairs may have been from CVE-32 not CVE-86 looking into this. The combat was taking out a Japanese bomber. The bomber crashed about 100yrds from USS Sitkoh Bay (CVE-86). Info from just diggin aorund started with a small book on corsairs.

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Bad Omen

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GATT: MC.205
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 1999, 01:30:00 PM »
Indian & Windle: I have read that after-action report too. It says 5 F4u-B went after a Kamikaze bomber and riddled it with 20mm cannon fire before a wing failed and it crashed. I believe it was near Okinawa.The book with this information is the F4u book by what's-his-name that starts with a "V."(Windle knows who I am talking about.)

Problem: another source lists all units and what F4u's they were equipped with, at 2 different dates. The second date is the same as the date as when the above action took place. They list the exact same unit as having all F4u-1C's, not F4u-4B's.

Another reference states that the 200 F4u-1C did not see combat action until Okinawa, 1945 which would place it in the above scenario too. Personally, I thought I read somewhere else that the -1C saw action earlier than that but don't remember where.