Real World Pilots

[Wolfala]

SkyRock

What's the average cost of getting your license, minus rental, fuel, and instructor fees?  

Books - couple hundred. Examiner - 400. Headsets - 1000.

The rest of the stuff you minus'd - budget between $10 and $15,000.

A rough breakdown:  Airplane $145 per hour * 60 hours average:  $8700
Instructor:  $110 per hour * 40 to 50 hours:  $4400-5000
Fuel: Budget between $40-50 per hour: $2400-3000.

[rvflyer]

Books - couple hundred. Examiner - 400. Headsets - 1000.

The rest of the stuff you minus'd - budget between $10 and $15,000.

A rough breakdown:  Airplane $145 per hour * 60 hours average:  $8700
Instructor:  $110 per hour * 40 to 50 hours:  $4400-5000
Fuel: Budget between $40-50 per hour: $2400-3000.

  It can very a little from this depending on your ability and how fast you learn. This is using a part 141 flight school
if you can find a freelance instructor with an airplane it could  be cheaper. Everywhere I know about and have taught
at include fuel with airplane rental price.

Private Pilot Certificate

Text and Materials $415.00
20 Hours Dual (Cessna 152) $2,640.00
15 Hours Solo (Cessna 152) $1,320.00
10 Hours Pre & Post Flight $440.00
Computerized FAA Written Exam $100.00
1 Hour A/C Rental for Practical Test $88.00
TOTAL COST $5,000 to $6000

[Wolfala]

  It can very a little from this depending on your ability and how fast you learn. This is using a part 141 flight school
if you can find a freelance instructor with an airplane it could  be cheaper. Everywhere I know about and have taught
at include fuel with airplane rental price.

Private Pilot Certificate

Text and Materials $415.00
20 Hours Dual (Cessna 152) $2,640.00
15 Hours Solo (Cessna 152) $1,320.00
10 Hours Pre & Post Flight $440.00
Computerized FAA Written Exam $100.00
1 Hour A/C Rental for Practical Test $88.00
TOTAL COST $5,000 to $6000

This is isn't realistic. The vast majority of the population will not fit in a Cessna 152, nor would they want to. This also assumes the minimum to qualify for the checkride of FAA 40 hours - which 90% of the canidates which have the skills necessary to even get to the checkride will never make. You gotta be realistic when you quote numbers - this is a tactic to hook ya on the hope of flying. If you teach like I do, you need to set realistic expectations. i.e. We are in the New York area, the airspace is the busiest in the world, complicated, and it will take more then the 40 hour minimum to get your private, assuming I don't wash you out in the first 5 hours. Like most things in life - you do it on the cheap, you get what you pay for.

On a side, for the drivers and wouldbe drivers out there - we issued a Safety issue through COPA for Free. Its worth a read - has tips on recognizing detonation and pre-ignition that are worth reading if you have the equipment onboard.

http://www.cirruspilots.org/media/p/482566/download.aspx

[Delirium]

assuming I don't wash you out in the first 5 hours.

What would be grounds for washing someone out? Not putting the time into studying the material, freezing up while at the controls, not listening to the instuctor, or something I've missed?

[Wolfala]

What would be grounds for washing someone out? Not putting the time into studying the material, freezing up while at the controls, not listening to the instuctor, or something I've missed?

Its the amount of time it takes for both myself and the student to know if this is something they can be successful at - so as not to waste anyone's time or money. This is generally after 3 get together's - with the associated ground and academic work.

General things that will not look good: not asserting responsibility for being the one in command; a resigned attitude; not having the time to devote to the training; preparedness (nothing is more insulting then a student who comes unprepared. I'm getting paid a lot of money to teach - I want you to get value from my time.)

[rvflyer]

This is isn't realistic. The vast majority of the population will not fit in a Cessna 152, nor would they want to. This also assumes the minimum to qualify for the checkride of FAA 40 hours - which 90% of the canidates which have the skills necessary to even get to the checkride will never make. You gotta be realistic when you quote numbers - this is a tactic to hook ya on the hope of flying. If you teach like I do, you need to set realistic expectations. i.e. We are in the New York area, the airspace is the busiest in the world, complicated, and it will take more then the 40 hour minimum to get your private, assuming I don't wash you out in the first 5 hours. Like most things in life - you do it on the cheap, you get what you pay for.

On a side, for the drivers and wouldbe drivers out there - we issued a Safety issue through COPA for Free. Its worth a read - has tips on recognizing detonation and pre-ignition that are worth reading if you have the equipment onboard.

http://www.cirruspilots.org/media/p/482566/download.aspx

  Actually it is very realistic!! when you quote someone $1000.00 for headsets that is not being realistic, why would a student want to spend that much for headsets until they even know if they well get the PP or not? Yes Bose ANRs are nice to have but not until you have your certificate and even till you buy your own airplane. When you quote fuel as an extra above the cost of rental that is not realistic, most aircraft rental places factor the price of fuel into the rental cost. I guess one reason could be your East coast and I am West coast. As you said the people that are not going to make it for some reason or other are usually washed out in the first few hours, but the ones that really apply them self and want to learn can usually do it very close to FAA minimum hours. I have never had a student take over 55 hours now have ex students of mine that are running flight schools and flying commercially and are flight instructors. So the comment you get what you pay for is a cheap shot. Also there are many many independent flight instructors out there that do a good job of instructing and do not gouge the student like some schools do. Many flight schools and flight center instructors are just trying to build time to move on to flying jobs and flying on a students money is a cheap way for them to build time to qualify for a flying job.
Most students that start taking flying lessons are in their late teens to late 30s so do not have that mid life spread yet and fit just fine in a Cessna 150/152.

By your other comments I would guess that you are using a Cirrus to teach in so that explains the high rental cost and your bias toward Cessnas. There is no more forgiving airplane made for teaching students how to fly than a Cessna 150/152.

[Wolfala]

Nothing against Cessnas, got hundreds in the entire line Just cannot see having ones nuts sqeezed in a 152 when yr 6 foot 200. On the ANR, if you cannot dissipate the sound energy then yr hearing takes the hit. That's not something that returns with time - so for the lifer a grand for a good anr pays the rest of yr days. Cirrus is just one type that I happen to own, but I teach in cessnas, grummans, mooneys, pipers, plus their cabin class twins.

The rest i stand by.   

[wgmount]

rvflyers quote is pretty close. Most people don't live in the area where they like to rip people off. Private certificate for 6500 while on a 2 week vacation from work. It was even issued by the same FAA your 40,000 dollar certificate was. probably around 3500 for a recreational certificate.

[8313jbx]

Logbook + 2 hours cubjc3&cessna172

[Cobra516]

Cool to see so many other pilots flying AH.  

Solo'd on my 16th b-day and now I'm commercial/instrument/tailwheel - about 420 hours so far, around 300 of that in my dads '54 L-21 Super Cub.  I started flying with him when I was 6, so I probably have close to 1000 in it, but a lot of it was before I solo'd so it doesn't officially count.

I think I'm about a month or so away from my CFII, will get the CFI after that and plan to make a career out of it.  It's a pretty crappy time at the moment for pilots/the industry, but I'm confident it'll all work out.    

[Yippee38]

I am an A&P and would like to take it one step further and learn to fly,  but the lack of money is keeping me from doing so.  Anyone up for some trade work?

I'll trade you flight instruction for landscaping work in the spring.  You have to provide the plane though.   

[MutleyBR]

Cool to see so many other pilots flying AH. 

Solo'd on my 16th b-day and now I'm commercial/instrument/tailwheel - about 420 hours so far, around 300 of that in my dads '54 L-21 Super Cub.  I started flying with him when I was 6, so I probably have close to 1000 in it, but a lot of it was before I solo'd so it doesn't officially count.

I think I'm about a month or so away from my CFII, will get the CFI after that and plan to make a career out of it.  It's a pretty crappy time at the moment for pilots/the industry, but I'm confident it'll all work out.   

Hi Cobra.

I started flying in 1975 and it was a "...a pretty crappy time at the moment for pilots/the industry...", already...
In the 80's had an interview with ICAO(International Civil Aviation Organization) Representative in Brazil.
He was Spanish, and unfortunately, don't remember his name. He said, nowadays many people are worried about getting a job in aviation. Many small towns, grow, an whatīs one the first things they think of, to give it status? Building an Airport!!

And, later on, talking to a friend pilot in our airline who owned a Cessna 152, I was telling him I intended to buy a single engine for sport.
He told me that when he went to buy his plane, and didnīt have the money,  the seller said, "You already got 50%..." Howīs that? I already got 50%???? my friend asked.

"Yes, you have the WISH to own an airplane..."

So, donīt worry Cobra, the Aviation Industry IS EXPANDING, in spite of what many people say, and you already got 50% of what you want...

Mutley

[strong10]

What would be grounds for washing someone out? Not putting the time into studying the material, freezing up while at the controls, not listening to the instuctor, or something I've missed?

Not paying the ripoff rates of $110/hr rates, lol.  You wouldn't get washed out of any legitimate program 'cept military.  You can train any monkey to be a pilot, this guy can only wash people out of his program.. If you want to be a pilot, you can.  Some people take more time, some less.  In the end, a guy that takes 40hrs or 120hrs is held to the same standards and regulations when you get your license. 

BTW, Part 141 only requires 35hrs min.

Anyone can go get behind the controls of an airplane for about $50 for 20-30 min or so.  Its as much fun as you would think and more!

[Wolfala]

Not paying the ripoff rates of $110/hr rates, lol.  You wouldn't get washed out of any legitimate program 'cept military.  You can train any monkey to be a pilot, this guy can only wash people out of his program.. If you want to be a pilot, you can.  Some people take more time, some less.  In the end, a guy that takes 40hrs or 120hrs is held to the same standards and regulations when you get your license. 

BTW, Part 141 only requires 35hrs min.

Anyone can go get behind the controls of an airplane for about $50 for 20-30 min or so.  Its as much fun as you would think and more!

Actually what I charge is pretty competitive for White Plains who I compete with in training and the type aircraft. I come in at $145 and $40 for gas, still end up $90 less then the least expensive SR-20 out there. That, in addition to having to cover all the liability insurance, risk + maintenance.

http://www.performanceflight.com/rental_rates.html

# Instructor - $95/hr
# Simulator - $165/hr



Rental Rates

All planes are 2007 models and are fully loaded.
# SR20-GTS - $265/hr
# SR22-GTS - $300/hr
# SR22-GTS - Cirrus Perspective - $310/hr (arriving soon!)
# SR22-GTS Turbo - $325/hr
# Diamond DA-42 Twinstar - $350

[wgmount]

Well, learning to fly doesn't have to cost you an arm and a leg. If someone wants to learn to fly send me a PM I'll hook you up with a guy in Albertville, Al. you won't have a fancy simulator or fancy complex aircraft to fly but you will learn in a Cessna 172 and spend around $6500 for a private certificate. And the certificate comes from the same building in Oklahoma City the people Wolfala trains. How long does it take? Well i studied for the written exams for six months on my own then logged 58hrs in 2 weeks in a cessna 172 and did my check ride. It all depends on you.