Author Topic: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang  (Read 3439 times)

Offline eagl

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2010, 08:29:23 PM »
2 words

Jack Roush




Ohh and still cheaper than Big Money Wasted. :neener:

How can you say "Jack Roush" and "Big Money Wasted", as if they're 2 separate things?  If you're going to throw another $25,000 at a $40,000 car in order to get it to handle decently, why not just go with a vette to begin with?  A roush mustang can't do anything better than a stock vette of equal price, except carry 4 passengers instead of 2.  And the vette will handle MUCH better on any track that is even slightly more challenging than going in a straight line for .25 miles then jamming on the brakes.

Fact the facts - mustangs are all about image.  There simply isn't anything more to it than that, no matter how much engine you stuff under the hood and no matter how short/stiff the suspension is.  Getting a mustang to perform better than a 4th gen f-body or any vette made in the last 14 years costs more money than just buying a stock *anything else*.

Of course, the same fact applies to the current camaro...  It's a nice looking but very heavy car with a big engine.  Physics takes over no matter how much $$$ or power you pour into the car.


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Offline CAP1

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2010, 08:33:17 PM »
I haven't driven one in years, but I've raced against them in me '98 firebird.  There has never been a stock mustang built that can match an old f-body on a road course, period.  Just look at historical SCCA race results in the stock classes for proof...

I WAS talking street.

and if i recall, didn't mustangs hammer camaros and firebirds in trans am back in 67 or 68? back when they were a lil closer to street cars? :devil
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Offline CAP1

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2010, 08:34:46 PM »
How can you say "Jack Roush" and "Big Money Wasted", as if they're 2 separate things?  If you're going to throw another $25,000 at a $40,000 car in order to get it to handle decently, why not just go with a vette to begin with?  A roush mustang can't do anything better than a stock vette of equal price, except carry 4 passengers instead of 2.  And the vette will handle MUCH better on any track that is even slightly more challenging than going in a straight line for .25 miles then jamming on the brakes.

Fact the facts - mustangs are all about image.  There simply isn't anything more to it than that, no matter how much engine you stuff under the hood and no matter how short/stiff the suspension is.  Getting a mustang to perform better than a 4th gen f-body or any vette made in the last 14 years costs more money than just buying a stock *anything else*.

Of course, the same fact applies to the current camaro...  It's a nice looking but very heavy car with a big engine.  Physics takes over no matter how much $$$ or power you pour into the car.




how'd we go from mustang vs camaro to mustang vs corvette/?
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Offline eagl

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2010, 08:40:40 PM »
how'd we go from mustang vs camaro to mustang vs corvette/?

When you said "have you ever driven one" in response to a statement to the effect that mustangs handle like crap.  Then Bronk brought up Roush, which brings the mustang into or above the vette price range, making a comparison to a camaro pointless.

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Offline Bronk

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2010, 08:41:11 PM »
Snip
yes eagl we know. You don't like mustangs. :neener:
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Offline eagl

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2010, 08:42:13 PM »
I WAS talking street.

and if i recall, didn't mustangs hammer camaros and firebirds in trans am back in 67 or 68? back when they were a lil closer to street cars? :devil

Nobody was talking about '67 or '68 mustangs or camaros/firebirds.  We're talking about every mustang ever built compared to the last generation of f-body and the current camaro, and comparing a roush mustang against anything that costs even remotely close to that.

Come on, get with the program :)
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Offline Bronk

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2010, 08:42:52 PM »
When you said "have you ever driven one" in response to a statement to the effect that mustangs handle like crap.  Then Bronk brought up Roush, which brings the mustang into or above the vette price range, making a comparison to a camaro pointless.


And the
Big
Money
Wasted

wasn't targeted towards the vette.. or didn't you pick that up. ;)

Edit:Ohh and eagle the stage 3 suspention from roush is $1500 for the parts.
http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=1145
I'm sure it will get around the corners just fine with that. :neener:
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 08:50:03 PM by Bronk »
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Offline eagl

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2010, 08:49:54 PM »
yes eagl we know. You don't like mustangs. :neener:

I have nothing against mustangs since I know what they are, and they're great at what they are - nice looking cars that can't turn  :D

I do think it's pretty stupid when mustang fans try to talk about how great their mustangs are on a real racecourse, because any race results you can look up that compare stock mustangs of any year against stock 4-th gen f-bodies (the last generation built) show exactly what I said, that there has never been a stock mustang made that can keep up with a 4th gen f-body on a road course.  Then the mustang fans always bring up roush or saleen, at which point you're trying to compare a brand new $80k+ car against a car with a retail value of somewhere under $6,000, making it inevitable that the roush or saleen car will be compared against other $80k cars, of which the vette is the obvious comparison.  An equal comparison could be made between specialty versions of the nissan Z cars, the GT-R, and various european models, however it's just too easy to compare to the vette because the vette has a very good bang/buck ratio in the $60k-$80k price range.

But hate the mustang?  Naw.  I just know what it does well and what it sucks at.   They suck at turning, and the proof is all over the SCCA results for the last 12 years.
 
Brag on the current camaro (or charger, challenger, etc) for turning ability, and you'll get the same treatment :)
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Offline Sonicblu

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2010, 08:51:03 PM »
I liked my O5 Soncblu  Mustang GT Had to sell it to build wife house. When house is done and i saved a little I would buy another one. :x

Fun little car for the price and I dont care how well it performes at the extreme end. I just like taking it for a cruise.

Offline Bronk

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2010, 08:51:52 PM »
Snip
See my edit. $1500  plus install will make her turn just fine. :D
See Rule #4

Offline eagl

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2010, 08:52:11 PM »
And the
Big
Money
Wasted

wasn't targeted towards the vette.. or didn't you pick that up. ;)

Edit:Ohh and eagle the stage 3 suspention from roush is $1500 for the parts.
http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=1145
I'm sure it will get around the corners just fine with that. :neener:

BMW is the obvious reference, but "roush" means $$$.  And the stage 3 suspension on a mustang still won't make it hustle around a track like the 4th gen f-bodies.  Those things loved to be tracked all day.  I know some guys who would bring his stock camaro Z-28 to the track with a trunk full of brake rotors and keep tally of all the specialty mustangs he lapped or out-lasted.  The only weak parts on that generation of f-body was an ineffective power steering cooler, but you could still run it until the brake rotors cracked before having to top up the fluid.  The stangs and many other weaker cars usually pooped out for one reason or another, usually overheating, long before the camaros had to pit.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 08:54:16 PM by eagl »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2010, 09:19:08 PM »
When you said "have you ever driven one" in response to a statement to the effect that mustangs handle like crap.  Then Bronk brought up Roush, which brings the mustang into or above the vette price range, making a comparison to a camaro pointless.



actually, the only way that would increase the mustangs price that much, would be if the car was "factory" modded at roush.

 to go ahead and buy the parts and install them yourself, is still fairly cheap.

also......don't think for a minute, that i'm puttin down the ":F" bodies. i'm not.

 when i talk, since i've never autocrossed, i talk of street driving. there's plenty of twisty-turny roads around here, and my 89 breezed through em, with mostly stock suspension.
 in all honesty, i never had anyone that tried, manage to stay with me. now.....2 equally skilled drivers.....i know it's a different story.
 ford(i think) knows that the main market for the stang, is guys that like to tinker with their cars, so they keep it simple.
 your "F" bodies are proof positive that IRS isn't really necessary for excellent handling, and ford seems to realize this too.
 simply change the rear control arms, and possibly the springs, will wake up the stang. best part, is that a knuckle dragger can do that in an afternoon, with no lifts or air tools. i could do it all in about 2 hours or less.

 i just absolutey love the looks of the new stang...although i hate it in red.......
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Offline CAP1

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2010, 09:23:11 PM »
Nobody was talking about '67 or '68 mustangs or camaros/firebirds.  We're talking about every mustang ever built compared to the last generation of f-body and the current camaro, and comparing a roush mustang against anything that costs even remotely close to that.

Come on, get with the program :)


but in doing so, at some point, you're going apples to oranges.

in the mentioned years, they were equal. of course a 68 stang won;t handle to a 4th gen F body. neither will a 68 camaro.

  :aok
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Offline CAP1

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2010, 09:23:55 PM »
And the
Big
Money
Wasted

wasn't targeted towards the vette.. or didn't you pick that up. ;)

Edit:Ohh and eagle the stage 3 suspention from roush is $1500 for the parts.
http://store.roushperformance.com/detail.aspx?ID=1145
I'm sure it will get around the corners just fine with that. :neener:

it doesn't have to be roush......ya could even go ford motorsports.
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Offline 5PointOh

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Re: 5.0 returns in the 2011 Mustang
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2010, 09:26:18 PM »
We're talking about every mustang ever built compared to the last generation of f-body and the current camaro, and comparing a roush mustang against anything that costs even remotely close to that.

Hmmm pretty sure a early 90s FOX Mustang would smack the crap out of a 3rd Gen Camaro.  Why only the F-Body cars?  I bet you're an F-Body guy. 
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