Why can AH Lancaster perform loops?

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

I really dont mean this to be FM whine, but im curious why AH makes it possible for the lanc to loop. I know that the B17 manual explicitly states that the B17 cannot loop under any circumstance. Now obviously lanc and 17 arent identical planes, but clearly they are close enough to make a reasonable conclusion that lanc couldnt loop either. So to all you experts out there could the real lanc loop at will? Did a lanc ever do a loop under any circumstance? Can anyone find evidence of lanc doing loops in RL? If not, what aspect of the AH flight model is inherently wrong if it allows these highly aerobatic moves to be done in lanc. Again not intended as a whine, Im just curious if this is realistic/possible and within aerodynamic/structural capabilities of the lancaster heavy bomber.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Dowding]

I've heard about pilots doing slow rolls in unloaded, lightly fuelled lancs. Perhaps a loop could be done as well? It was a very strong, fast and manoeverable plane with a light load.

[Saintaw]

I hope they didn't have a "cr*pper" in there  

Saw

[juzz]

Boscome Down test pilots dived Lancasters to higher IAS than is possible in AH without bits falling off...

I suspect if anything, the problem lies with the effectiveness of the control surfaces at high speeds on the 4/e bombers in AH, ie: stick forces are too low/pilot is superman strong.

[snafu]

Hi Grunherz,
 I'm sure some fairly exceptional manouvers where flown in combat situations but although not mentioning loops directly the Pilots notes for the Lanc do not recommend it. Check this Page    .

TTFN
snafu

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[This message has been edited by snafu (edited 12-11-2000).]

[Wardog]

Hi Grunz...

Yes, i did 2 maybe 3 loops in the Lanc. I had dropped all eggs and had 25% fuel when i left a20 and headed a13.. Dont know of any documentation other than common sence as any heavy bomber would not have the chance in Real Life to do this.

Night before last i was a Lanc and had 2 109s on me, i managed to do 4 or 5 immelmans but couldnt jump to guns inverted or auto would have torn the plane apart..Again this was after all eggs where gone. As you know the lanc cant grab alt well heavy but does seem to hold power after your lite. And both times i was under 15k..

Jigster ended up nailing me in a 6 shot but i managed to ping him a few times.

Dog out.......

[Karnak]

An unladen Lanc was known to have been an exceptionally manueverable aircraft for its size.

I'm not saying that it could do this, just that it might be able to.

Sisu
-Karnak

[J_A_B]

FYI, a fully unloaded B-17 with no guns and most the armor removed COULD loop; it was done a number of times.

However, a "combat ready" B-17 would never even think of looping.    Probably the same for the Lancaster.

[Jigster]

It's not really a factor of the plane's structural integrity but of crew strength and the plane's current loaded state.

The warnings are imposed to preserve the airframe without major mechanical work (thats not saying it would hurt the aircraft but there is always the possibility it might)untill its next flight   It's easy to bend the wings but its very hard to rip them off.

- Jig


[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 12-11-2000).]

[SKurj]

Hey and how come both the JU88 and Lanc have a considerably higher ceiling in AH than RL

stir stir (don't care but....)


AKSKurj

[nowotny]

Pilot's reported that they could fly the Lanc like a fighter once the bomb load was gone.  They used to do barrel rolls and corkscrew maneuvers when under attack by fighters...  Don't know if they could loop though...

[funked]

Skurj:  Service Ceiling = 100 fpm climb rate with full fuel and standard bomb load sustained power settings, i.e. not emergency power.  I've never flown a BUFF in AH without violating one of those three conditions.  

[juzz]

AKSKurj; it's because the Lancaster FM is really warped. Eg: Try flying it at the maximum continuous power settings listed above...

[Swoop]

Juzz, you're talking about engine management (which I raised in another post a while ago) not the FM.

I *just yesterday* saw a prog about the evolution of bombers on the History channel (UK).  It specifically stated that the Lanc was the first British heavy bomber that could loop.  Unfortunately that was about all it said, they moved straight on to the B17.  Dunno if that was laden or unladen, I'd imagine unladen.

I've never tried to loop a Lanc in AH before, I'll experiment later.

Swoop

[juzz]

Well, it should lift off at 90mph IAS too, but it requires about 20mph more though...