Author Topic: Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this  (Read 441 times)

Offline grizz

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2001, 08:35:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
The AH field ACK is a joke compared to that.

In this new version field ack a niki or spitfire (or other turn types) can make several full low alt slow circles inside field boundaries without getting shot for a long time, while any plane that passes by the acks at high speeds gets klled much faster.

And no this isnt some LW whine, you all, many P51, Typhoon and P47 drivers said they see the same thing day after day.

Something is really stupid and off in the new field acks. Plus the very idea that a single fighter is able to deack a field in 2 or 3 passes is simply rediculous. toejam with a little luck ive been able to deack the majority of a medium field in my Me109G6 using only the 13mm guns. All you have to do is fly right at the ack u wanna kill, because if you fly right at it it most likely WONT hit you, and then fire. One or two pings anywhere near the ACK graphic kills it and you then extend and go at it again.

The new field ack modeling is really poor and idiotic.

Try this offline. Set destroyobjects setting so you can kill friendly fields. Go up in your favorite ride, line up on an ack and fire one shell. (SO the counters go down one each. ) You can drop all the ack at a small field, not including the vh ack, with 16 shots, 8 from each gun. I used the spit9 with just cannon,then just the .50's and the p47's .50's.

This works in the arena's too, but I'm usually dead by the 3'rd ack also.   :)

I just thought it was interesting, that's all.   :D

Offline ispar

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2001, 09:08:00 PM »
Yes, an excellent story, and a truly terrifying account. Toward the end of the war, fighter-bomber attacks on airfields were actually brought to a halt, at least by the RAF. It was that bad.

Offline Swoop

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2003, 02:23:46 AM »


cos it's a good one......


Offline Replicant

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2003, 05:07:22 AM »
Wow, I'll definitely have to get that book!  Swoop, which squadron was he flying for at the time, 3 (F) Sqn? (same as AH Tempest).
NEXX

Offline Flyboy

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2003, 05:56:07 AM »
wow
this is good reading



i think the AAA in AH is very good but we just dont have enough of it

we have what? 5 guns as a small field?

they hed about 40 (!!!) all sizes and shapes

could be good to add 20mm posts and maybe even .50cals for those damn spits that keep circling low and slow



allso maybe make 1 or 2 "flack towers" which will be harder and will take a 50 ir 100 pound bomb to take out




weill sure help with the vulching ;)

Offline Crowwe

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2003, 07:13:38 AM »
Frankly, I've always wanted to hear the radar guns buzzing in my headphones as I go over a field with ack. Its sick, but it would add a little touch of realism to the game.

Offline Westy

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2003, 08:41:33 AM »
"The nightmare had lasted perhaps 35 seconds from the beginning of our dive, and we had lost eight aircraft out of ten…."


 That's a bone chilling read when you think about it what happened and how fast.


 However in the AH fantasy world called the MA those eight would have purposely augered to respawn quickly for a dweeby "rinse & repeat".   And the two who made it would be harangued by the rest of thier "squat" for not augering properly and for "wasting time."
« Last Edit: August 26, 2003, 09:21:35 AM by Westy »

Offline Eagler

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original post
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2003, 09:14:44 AM »
11 days before..
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline WhiteHawk

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2003, 10:08:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
"The nightmare had lasted perhaps 35 seconds from the beginning of our dive, and we had lost eight aircraft out of ten…."


 That's a bone chilling read when you think about it what happened and how fast.


 However in the AH fantasy world called the MA those eight would have purposely augered to respawn quickly for a dweeby "rinse & repeat".   And the two who made it would be harangued by the rest of thier "squat" for not augering properly and for "wasting time."


That there is what we call brutally honest:eek:

Offline Swoop

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Re: original post
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2003, 10:13:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
11 days before..


I'll see your 11 days and raise you 2 years.


Offline wulfie

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2003, 12:49:18 PM »
In the final year of WW2 the LW began massing their AAA at the larger bases and massing their air units there as much as possible. Allied fighter-bomber raids were so numerous that having 4 or 5 'decent' defended bases (in terms of AAA coverage) meant you were going to have those 4 or 5 be swarmed and leveled. This is why you see accounts of dozens of AAA sites at LW airfields.

It is true though - the average airfield in AH has far fewer AAA weapons.

This biggest 'problem' (needs to be fixed, but would take alot of effort to get 'right' and AH2 is a more pressing 'to do' list for sure) is that the 'attack' pilots in AH know the exact position of every fixed AAA unit at an airfield. Counter AAA missions were very rare in WW2 except as done by the LW on the Eastern front (SG pilots went through a great deal of training in the supression of AAA with cluster munitions). Most of the time an attack pilot was not going to make multiple passes on the same target if it had decent AAA defense. So on that one pass he's going after the primary target. The airfields in AH, ideally, would have large areas of camoflage netting 'clutter' (picture the VH netting effect over the fuel tanks, all bunkers, and 10 or 12 'VH' that aircraft would roll from. There should be 10, 12, maybe as many as 20 'camoflaged' AAA positions. If there is only 4 or 6 active AAA weapons at an airfield, the positions they fire from should change ~1 hour after the most recent attack on the airfield.

"Just an idea"

Mike/wulfie

Offline BB Gun

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2003, 01:47:16 PM »
Another interesting RL tactic as described by some pilots with the 352nd FG was as follows:

Send half the attack in up high, send half down low.  The high fighters would make dummy dive bombing attacks from on high, drawing the flak guns up and away from ground level.  THey would drop their drop tanks as "bombs" and scoot off.

Through radio work, the second low flight would come screaming over the field at grasstop height just after the upper flight dropped their drop tanks.  The AAA guns were all pointed up and thus gave the low flight a "relatively" clean run through the hot zone.  But only one.  They didn't  come back for a second pass.

The few personal descriptions of this that I have heard of this are just hair raising, and I cannot do justice enough to them to try to repeat them here.  What remains are primarily incredible impressions of P-51s streaking along at 350-400 ias at 10-15 feet above the ground, or lower, just flat out amazing to me.

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Offline rc51

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2003, 05:24:20 PM »
Yep and not a one of them was auotomated.
they had men in them shooting!

Offline Karnak

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2003, 08:44:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
Wow, I'll definitely have to get that book!  Swoop, which squadron was he flying for at the time, 3 (F) Sqn? (same as AH Tempest).


IIRC the Tempest in AH is Closterman's Tempest.
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Offline straffo

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Ya think the AAA we have is bad? Read this
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2003, 03:52:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
Wow, I'll definitely have to get that book!  Swoop, which squadron was he flying for at the time, 3 (F) Sqn? (same as AH Tempest).


arggggggggggggggg

AH's tempest IS Clostermann tempest :)

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/closterm.htm
« Last Edit: August 27, 2003, 03:59:17 AM by straffo »