Quest for the 427mph Ki-84 Continues......

[Sundog]

Rgr that vermillion. What's truly interesting, is that the Japanese had the Shoki in 42, but didn't build enough of them because they didn't think a high speed high wing loading aircraft (As the US used..and High wing loading is relative to the Japanese std of zeros and oscars..etc). Obiously the Hayate was a better aircraft then the Shoki, however, for a midwar era aircraft, the Shoki could have made a major impact on the war...but I'm glad it didn't  .

BTW, that Hayate tested after the war, did it have guns and ammo load when they recorded 427mph? Also, I would take any top speeds with a grain of salt wrt to each aircraft, unless you know what the atmospheric conditions were at the time the speed was set and the aircraft's speciific loading conditions at that moment as well.

[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 05-06-2000).]

[Kieren]

The control in the test I have quoted was a P51 and P47 flying side-by-side. This would suggest that the performance was at least comparable to the Allies planes WRT to speed. In climb and turn it was hands-down the winner.

I would assume that it was still equipped when the tests were conducted, though the report doesn't confirm this.

And Vermillion, I didn't take your comment as a request. Actually, this has been a good discussion for me, giving a logical reason to look at anecdotal data- something I would have ignored before now.

[ra]

<<<I guess it intrests me because it goes against the "American Planes are always faster, and the Japanese could only build slow turn fighters." fallacy.>>>

This is not really a 'fallacy', it's more of a 'generalization'.  Most Japanese planes were slower and better turning than their US oponents. (the Zeke and Oscar probably account for 2/3 of all Japanese fighters built)

Of course, the F4F was slower, worse turning, and slower climbing than the Zeke.  In fact, the only thing the F4F could do well was shoot down Zekes.  

The Ki-84 sounds like it performed somewhere between a Spit IX and a Spit XIV.  When you fight against it you must have (and keep) an E advantage or you disengage or you die.  Same as F4F v Zeke or P-40E v Oscar or F4U v Tony.

ra

[Citabria]

in response to verm's earlier reply,


Yes, I love my dear P-38 she is a good ship, but I eagerly await the modelling of compression and dive flaps, I relish in her terrible slow speed roll rate and other weaknesses.

Not because I want my favorite plane to be the best, but because I love history. I love to re-enact the brave exploits of my favorite war pilots and their enemies.

I know it's folly to think this is close to what they experienced. This is merely a sureal representation of their exploits through which we vicariously suspend our disbelief trying to put ourselves in their shoes.

I don't know anymore if I'm right or wrong in my thinking or how fun it is or is not making our aircraft perform as closely as we can to the way they did in battle, but I believe the philosophy has merit.

I'm flying in real life every day and most weekends I fly stunt aircraft, but I have that nagging desire to romanticise; to treat as idealized or heroic these events that happened so long ago in these ancient airplanes with their ancient advantages and weaknesses.

[funked]

RA Said:

 

In fact, the only thing the F4F could do well was shoot down Zekes.

   Nice one!

I guess it was also good at surviving gunfire from Zekes.  

That's about it though, LOL!

[Vermillion]

Sundog, from the meager descriptions I have read I would assume that it still had its guns, but it probably didn't have any ammunition loaded. Like Kieren said, it was flown head to head with P47's and P51's as a control.
 

"...its all out speed proved amazing, 427 mph at 20,000 ft as compared to 405 for the Thunderbolt and 424 for the Mustang".

ra, your right its a generalization.

Citabria, I was kidding with you   And I understand and agree with your philosophy.




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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"