bomber gun convergence

[Rolex]

It is not necessary to be in a bomber to observe the ranges they are getting kills at sir.  3 times this week I've died to bomber fire at 1.5K, when drawing abreast of a flight.  Three different gunners that hit me at 1.5 K at approximately 2:30 position, and got the kill.  At least 5x that amount have hit me, for damage.

You might have some extreme lag problem. You were not killed at 1.5K from the gunners view. You can prove it to yourself by launching a bomber and flying on a heading of 285. Bring up a 1.5K target (.target 1500) and jump into the ball turret to see it at approximately your 2:30 position. Fire away and you'll see that it's impossible to hit that target. It's the same for any round  from any machine gun in any plane. It can't be done. The lower the altitude, the further the round travels in the game. You can hit a target at about 1,200 yards if you're on the deck, but not at altitude.

[Ghastly]

The lower the altitude, the further the round travels in the game. You can hit a target at about 1,200 yards if you're on the deck, but not at altitude.

Huh? 

This seems intuitively as though it must be backwards to me, because of the increased air density at lower alt, which would seem to me should increase drag, and cause the bullets to slow (and therefore fall off) faster than at higher alts.

What causes the extra range at low altitudes?

<S?>

[Rolex]

You're right. Maybe it's the opposite, but there is a difference. Off to test it now.

It's hell to get old.

Added: It's 1049 yards.

[hitech]

Try it, you say it happens all the time, go gun some buffs and shoot some film to show me all the shots made at 1.5k.

HiTech

[IrishOne]

they always sucker me into 400-500 yards before blowing me outta the sky....

[Delirium]

You're right. Maybe it's the opposite, but there is a difference. Off to test it now.

Yep, the .50 cal rounds will travel a lot further at higher altitude. Some of the MiG killers in Korea would take advantage of this in their F86s, firing well out of established ranges and still score hits.

Tho admittedly, I haven't tested it in AH.

[Ghastly]

....
It's hell to get old.

...

Ain't it though!  And the worst of it isn't when you stop remembering stuff. 

It's when you starting remembering stuff clear as a bell that a few hours, minutes or days later you realize was something completely different ...

<S>!

[Rolex]

I can remember things from 35 years ago clear as a bell, but I struggle to remember what I had for lunch yesterday. 

Anyway, here are some numbers:

From a front firing .50 caliber MG:
@ sea level, no hits at all after 1,050 yards
@ 11,000' MSL, you can get a few "golden BB's" hits (one round per 1,000 rounds fired) at about 1,189 yards.

From a rear firing gun:
@ 6,000' MSL, "golden BB's" only at 1,324 yards.
@ 11,000' MSL, "golden BB's" only at 1,350 yards.

[gyrene81]

So now you're trying to tell me you have experience firing a .50 caliber weapon from a moving 230 mph platform at a moving 400 mph target, and that you can speak on its effectiveness? (what fighter is attacking a bomber formation at 245 mph, in your opinion, during WW2?)

This thread is getting retarded.  Again, I'm only speaking from historical record, by the people that were doing the shooting.   You can recite all the figures you wish, I'll go with the opinions from the people that were there.

Moray, I have fired the M2 and the M60 machine guns from multiple platforms...including helicopters at 1500 feet off the deck...and at stationary as well as moving targets. You obviously failed to actually comprehend what I told you...try doing the math and see if it gets a little more clear.

What you're missing from your documentation is "context". Bomber gunners in WWII had rudimentary gunnery training...and they didn't get a lot of "practice" like Naval or infantry personnel...it consisted of "wear this, sit here, pull this then release it, put this in here, look at this and pull this"...of course they would be told not to fire beyond certain distances...they would see a plane coming at their formation and if they had a shot, open fire in bursts until they couldn't fire at it anymore...and I guarantee you, in a life or death situation if the gunner saw a plane coming at him he was firing regardless of what the instruction manual said.

In AH I fly bombers once in a while...and I have yet to get a "golden bb" on a fighter with laser like accuracy from more than 800 out...yet I've been shot down by what I "thought" was a single burst at 1000 out but was more likely a lot more that my system hadn't registered properly due to latency.

[Babalonian]

One thought I've had while playing this game while hunting/escroting some buff formations that happen to have some fighter escort, long range spray from a bomber to a distant enemy con just within range (lets say D700-1k) that has a friendly fighter con also closely presueing him (the friendly escort), typicaly results in the friendly persueing the con taking more damage/bullets than the intended enemy target. 

This is something most will not notice with FF-off and KS-on in all the popular main arenas (OT suggestion: make LWO a FF-off/KS-on arena and LWB a "hardcore" FF-on/KS-off arena plz), but go try it out in a scenario or other arena where FF is turned on (and quite lethal) and you'll learn that getting close to a friendly buff formation that's in the middle of defending itself from an attack is just about as dangerous to you and your aircraft as it is to the enemy attackers.  As is, most scenarios have informal pools amongst the Buff drivers, typicaly something along the lines of "who's gonna be the first friendly bomber we accidently tower because half of us strafe them over as we attempt to shoot down an enemy con?").