76mm Sherman V.S. Panther

[Nemisis]

Oh, sorry wrong way. From here it looked like you were saying we should read those, and that if we did, we wouldn't start threads like this.

And thats smart cthulhu, get out of whatever protection you have, and use a bazooka. If bazookas were more effective, why not just mount those on a tank then?

[Cthulhu]

Oh, sorry wrong way. From here it looked like you were saying we should read those, and that if we did, we wouldn't start threads like this.

And thats smart cthulhu, get out of whatever protection you have, and use a bazooka. If bazookas were more effective, why not just mount those on a tank then?

Since you've apparently bored Wrongway away, I'll respond for both of us Kiddo. WW is a man of few words. He knows what he's talking about, and like many of us he has little patience for post wh**e's, so he offered up some factual enlightenment for your consumption. You can do with it as you please.

Now, regarding your question about bazookas. The painful reality is that, in the vicinity of Panther's (or God forbid, their larger brethren), the Sherman was often little more than a noisy, thin-skinned, 9-foot tall tank of gasoline, full of soon-to-be dead men. (If you have any doubts, I can refer you to a vet I once met who was a corpsman. He distinctly recalled pulling THREE different (very dead) crews from the same Sherman.)

My comment to WW was somewhat in jest, but only slightly. Given a choice between wearing a big noisy thin-skinned flammable kill-me costume with a dismal kill ratio against German armor, vs taking your chances with the infantry, well, the infantry does sometimes have it's advantages.

As far as mounting bazooka's on a tank, ponder this silliness (although not technically a rocket projectile):
(Yes, that IS the loader standing in the background. What you can't see is the officer attempting to "motivate" him into battle at gun point  )

We can only surmise that the driver's helmet is an essential part of the front armor. 

[MORAY37]

OK, just a hypothetical, but which do you think would have a larger impact and in what way on AH? And would it be good or bad. Assume the 76mm sherman is just a bit below the M4, and the Panther is perked at half that of the tiger.

The Panther would have much more impact.  Better tank all the way around.

I've been "wishing" for this tank from the beginning.

[BigKev03]

I think both tanks would make an impact on the game.  The Panther of course would be the first choice due to the better gun and slightly better armor.  But the 76mm Sherman would be a worthy opponent.  The 76mm could penetrate the Panther if the range was close enough from the front and without a doubt from the flank.  Either tank would be fine with me.  Though the Panther would be vulnerable to the IL-2 due to the thin top armor on the rear deck.

[Nemisis]

Il-2's piss me off. They're like gnats buzzing around up there.

[E25280]

As stated above, people will likely take the T-34-76 out instead of the 76mm Sherman when low/no perk points. 

Not really.  The only thing the T-34/76 has on the 76mm Sherman is speed.  Armor is comparable.  The 76mm gun on the Sherman was the equal of the Russian 85, so firepower would go to the Sherman.  Optics I imagine would also be better than the soda-straw you seem to be looking through on the T-34s.  The Sherman would probably have a .50cal AA mount, compared to a big fat nothing on the T-34s.  Could be modeled with a gyrostabilized gun, so you wouldn't have that comparatively huge gun bounce to contend with when trying to fire on the move.  No smoke rounds for either T-34 . . . smoke rounds were available for both 75mm and 76mm armed Shermans.

Unless you were in a situation where the extra speed is critical, I think people would find an unperked 76mm armed Sherman very appealing.  Armed with the 75mm gun, which was about equal to the Russian 76, and it would still be a matter of preference, although again I think the Sherman's benefits outweigh the speed advantage of the T-34 in most situations.

[Nemisis]

Agreed. Personally, the .50 cal would do it right there for me. Hate Il-2s, they're just a bad aircraft. Would give a better chance of a pilot wound than a .30, and it gives you infinitly better chances than the nothing the T-34's have.

[stodd]

Oh, sorry wrong way. From here it looked like you were saying we should read those, and that if we did, we wouldn't start threads like this.

And thats smart cthulhu, get out of whatever protection you have, and use a bazooka. If bazookas were more effective, why not just mount those on a tank then?

Oh and on a side note, WrongWay, I actually have 2 of those books, quite interesting imo.

[Volron]

E25280
You got me there.   I was thinking about it's speed and silhouette.  Compared to the T-34, the Sherman sticks out like a sore thumb.  But as you stated, there are benefits the Sherman has over the T-34.  I COMPLETELY forgot about the pintle gun the Sherman would have. *sigh*  As for the Sherman having smoke rounds vs the T-34's, how many actually use them?  I have, personally, yet to see anyone use them.  Maybe in TT, they are used, but I've never gone to TT for a scrap.  Probably should, but me thinks my lack of gunnery skills with a tank, will quickly see me littering the landscape with my shots, then eventually, my own tank.


The .50 cal on the Sherman would prove very useful against attacking aircraft.  I've been successful with the M3's .50 cal, though I'm usually smeared by someone else shortly after.

If both were put in, well, seeing as I have yet to activate my account, I would take the Sherman for a spin the moment my account was activated.  If my account was still what it was (prior to real life kicking my arse resulting in deletion), then it would be the Panther first, the Sherman.  When I don't have enough perks or don't feel like using them, it would definitely be nice to roll something other than the T-34-76 or the Panzer IV.  I would still love to see that T-34-76 vs 76mm Sherman fight.  If both are equal in skill, I would put perks on the Sherman.

[MORAY37]

Not really.  The only thing the T-34/76 has on the 76mm Sherman is speed.  Armor is comparable. 

T34 had sloped armor, and is definitely superior to the Sherman.  The Germans didn't call the Sherman "Tommycooker" for no reason. 

[Scotty55OEFVet]

I'd like to see a straight M4 or the M4A1, which were the main models used by the US until after 1944.  This for use in special events.

Sherman Jumbo with 76mm MG.

[Scotty55OEFVet]

Id like to see another Soviet Armored Vehicle like the SU-100...Huge gun and sick armor.  Cant remember if itr carried the 85mm or 122mm.  Feel free to correct me guys. 

[Raptor]

Not really.  The only thing the T-34/76 has on the 76mm Sherman is speed.  Armor is comparable.

Armor might be comparable from the front, as that is the only place the sherman's armor appears to be slanted. The T34s armor is slanted on the sides as well giving it an advantage, also I believe the angle of the armor on the t34's front is more effective than the sherman's (sherman's is a bit steeper as opposed the the t34 45º angle)

[MORAY37]

Armor might be comparable from the front, as that is the only place the sherman's armor appears to be slanted. The T34s armor is slanted on the sides as well giving it an advantage, also I believe the angle of the armor on the t34's front is more effective than the sherman's (sherman's is a bit steeper as opposed the the t34 45º angle)

You are completely correct.  I guess the poster was comparing armor thickness rather than slope, which is to his own undoing.  Slope is what made the -34's armor effective, at least when compared to the "Tommycooker".

[vonKrimm]

Id like to see another Soviet Armored Vehicle like the SU-100...Huge gun and sick armor.  Cant remember if itr carried the 85mm or 122mm.  Feel free to correct me guys. 

100mm gun was found on the Su-100; the Su-85 had a 85mm gun and the Su-122 had a 122mm gun; simplicity for the designation of assault guns.

So far as the 76mm Sherman vs. Panther topic:  I'd rather see a 105mm Sherman variant and the base 75mm version as the Firefly fills the 76mm Sherman role well enough for the game; the Panther would be unique as an AH model, plus it was significant to the war (not that is a criteria for addition to AH), but mostly it will add dimension to Scenarios.