Author Topic: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther  (Read 9333 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2010, 06:28:53 PM »
Everyone just stop breakin' rules, you're gona get the thread locked  :cry. See, you even made my smiley cry.

The only person that is going to get this thread locked is the person that couldn't support his arguments without resorting to childish insults and personal attacks.


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Offline Nemisis

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2010, 06:31:44 PM »
All I'm saying is that I see some edits on everyone involved. Just asking for you guys not to screw my thread.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2010, 06:41:45 PM »
Show one post from me in this thread in which I've hurled any sort of personal insult.  You can't, so stop crying.


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Offline Nemisis

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2010, 07:41:26 PM »
I'm not saying you were using personal insults, but....

See Rule #2
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Offline Volron

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2010, 08:48:08 PM »
See Rule #2
See Rule #2
I'm not saying you were using personal insults, but....
I'm sorry Nemisis, but I have to back Ack-Ack on this. "Rule #2- Threads should remain on topic, do not "hijack" topics."  It's Rule #4 that is for flaming, insulting, etc, etc.  I hope Skuzzy doesn't think I'm trying to be a "back seat moderator".  :noid I'm just defending Ack-Ack on this one.  He merely made two post that were off topic.

"Standard Army doctrine at the time emphasized the importance of the infantry support role of the tank, and the high explosive round was considered more important. Hence the 76 mm M4 was not initially accepted by various U.S. Armored Division commanders, even though a number had already been produced and were available. All of the U.S. Army M4s deployed initially in Normandy in June 1944 had the 75 mm gun.[21]"

"Fighting against Panther tanks in Normandy quickly demonstrated the need for better anti-tank firepower, and the 76 mm M4s were deployed to First Army units in July 1944. Patton's Third Army started with 75 mm M4s and accepted 76 mm M4 Shermans only after the Battle of Arracourt against Panther tanks in late September 1944.[24]"

Both quotes I used were from Wiki, which states above, that the 76mm M4's were deployed to First Army units in July 1944.  This would mean that they were not deployed during D-Day.  Nothing in the wiki page indicates that they were used prior to this date.  This would put the 76mm Sherman as a LW era tank.

"The M4A1 Sherman first saw combat at the Second Battle of El Alamein in October 1942 with the British 8th Army"

It would be the 75mm Sherman that would be seen in MW and LW arenas.

"Panthers were supplied to form Panzer Abteilung 51 (Tank Battalion 51) on 9 January, and then Pz.Abt. 52 on 6 February.[65]"

"The first production Panther tanks were plagued with mechanical problems. The engine was dangerously prone to overheating and suffered from connecting rod or bearing failures. Gasoline leaks from the fuel pump or carburettor, as well as motor oil leaks from gaskets easily produced fires in the engine compartment; several Panthers were destroyed in such fires. Transmission and final drive breakdowns were the most common and difficult to repair. A large list of other problems were detected in these early Panthers and so from April through May 1943 all Panthers were shipped to Falkensee and Nuernburg for a major rebuilding program. This did not correct all of the problems, so a second program was started at Grafenwoehr and Erlangen in June 1943."

This would easily make the Panzer a MW/LW arena tank.

Overall, I still feel the Panther would make the biggest impact in the game, as it would span MW and LW arenas while the 76mm Sherman would be restricted to LW.  It would be perked (likely) equal, if not slightly higher, than the Tiger I because of it's deadlier gun, slightly higher speed (5 MPH faster) and excellent armor.

EW: 1939-1941, MW: 1941-1943, LW: 1943-1945.  Is this how HTC measures the arena time line?  I did a search check, but it turned up 11 pages of squat.  And no, I can't tell by the planes that are in each arena because I havn't been to EW or MW arenas.  My account is not active, so I can't just log in the check what planes were in each arena.  Otherwise, I could see what plane was in each arena and google their respective deployment times for myself. :aok
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Offline Nemisis

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2010, 10:57:07 PM »
oh, rule 2 is hijack. Sorry Ack-Ack, I was thinking rule 2 was insulting thing. IDK what I thought rule 4 was. I was a little slow there.

Sorry again sir.
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Offline Angus

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2010, 09:58:04 AM »
So where exactly is the thread debate loacated at the moment?
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Offline BigPlay

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2010, 11:47:33 AM »
The only person that is going to get this thread locked is the person that couldn't support his arguments without resorting to childish insults and personal attacks.


ack-ack



lol it looks as if you posted a few yourself.

 I wouldn't have responded to you but one your last post about me attacking your home town  was not true. My post was in responce to you posting how nice the beaches are in  El Segundo with a propaganda picture include.It had nothing to do with any previous post. I merely was clarifying that.

To avoid getting banned I will not make anymore posts on this topic. I see that nothing more can be said from my end other then something that will result in getting banned. Let's just agree to disagree.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 11:59:48 AM by BigPlay »

Offline E25280

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2010, 01:43:15 PM »
EW: 1939-1941, MW: 1941-1943, LW: 1943-1945.  Is this how HTC measures the arena time line? 
The exact cut offs are a matter of some debate, but your guess is as good as any.  The PzIV(H) I believe was a mid '43 version and is found in MW, so that may be an indication . . . or could just be an indication that we need more GVs (as in the EWA, where by all rights a T-34/76 should probably be a perked tank rather than the only offering).

I don't think anyone would dispute that the 76mm Sherman would be LWA only.  A 75mm version would be needed for MWA use.

Not sure whether the Panther would be MW, though.  As your post showed, the '43 versions were riddled with bugs that took some time to work through.  May as well make the version in game a "debugged" '44 version and simply make it LW only.  Already have the perked Tiger in MW, no real "need" for another perked tank there.
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Offline GtoRA2

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2010, 01:44:12 PM »
So where exactly is the thread debate loacated at the moment?

Lots of proof posted for no 76MM Shermans being in combat until late July 44.

No proof at all posted about them being on the Beach on D-Day.

If you are interested in Sherman's Angus, you should try and get a copy of Armored Thunderbolt by Zaloga, its a really interesting read.

Either tank would add Value to the game, I lean towards the Sherman myself though. It would be easy to model other models of it.  New turrets, etc.

Offline Nemisis

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #100 on: February 13, 2010, 02:26:29 PM »
I'm with e25280. Better to have a working '44 model than a '43 model with the steering being modeled as broken.


Would love to see a Panzer III ausf J for EW use, and a Panzer III ausf N (75mm cannon firing HEAT rounds), but not sure where it would fit in, MW or LW.
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Offline GtoRA2

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2010, 03:37:03 PM »
I'm with e25280. Better to have a working '44 model than a '43 model with the steering being modeled as broken.


Would love to see a Panzer III ausf J for EW use, and a Panzer III ausf N (75mm cannon firing HEAT rounds), but not sure where it would fit in, MW or LW.

Panzer IIIs and Early war Shermans would be fun. Its a very good match up.

Offline Nemisis

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2010, 06:31:45 PM »
Panzer III ausf J (early war model) wouldn't have a 75 you know. Would have a 50mm cannon.
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Offline GtoRA2

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #103 on: February 13, 2010, 08:02:57 PM »
Panzer III ausf J (early war model) wouldn't have a 75 you know. Would have a 50mm cannon.

Yeah the long 50MM isn't a bad gun.


Offline Nemisis

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Re: 76mm Sherman V.S. Panther
« Reply #104 on: February 13, 2010, 10:00:20 PM »
Not at all, was used throughout the war. You don't see that kind of use with something unless it works. I was just making sure you didn't think that because the N had a 75, the others would too.

Can't tell with people all the time.
All man needs to be happy is a home, his wife, and a place in the world

Col. 49Nem, Armor commander of the 49th