Author Topic: Ideal WW2 fighter gun armament (Read 1319 times)

Tac · « **Reply #30 on:** July 12, 2001, 07:03:00 AM »

ah-ha! But put THAT on the nose of a P-38... mbuahahaa

DB603 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 12, 2001, 09:07:00 AM »

S!

OK..German guns(what I've seen IRL) are very simple and reliable.That is what I prefer over ROF or velocity.And the Russians had/have good gun designs,like the Gsh23-2 twin barrel aircraft gun.Weight about 50kg and rate of fire nearly 3000rds/min.

M.C.202 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 12, 2001, 10:36:00 AM »

Tony, what about the Breda 20mm? Everything I read on it gives it good marks.

A P-39 with a 20mm vulcan.... What bomber?

The Paggio (sp?) mid engine radial prototype would have had four 12.7mm Bredas and one 20mm breda, all in the nose. Just reverse the numbers and you hace a good gun set.

Tony Williams · « **Reply #33 on:** July 12, 2001, 01:48:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by M.C.202:
Tony, what about the Breda 20mm? Everything I read on it gives it good marks.

I have not been able to find out anything about the Breda aircraft cannon (there was a 20mm AA gun which used the same 20x138B ammo as the German Flak, but that was a monster) and I believe it never saw action, but if you have a good source of info on it I would be very interested.

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/index.htm

Lephturn · « **Reply #34 on:** July 12, 2001, 02:20:00 PM »

How about a P-38 with an even dozen .50 cal brownings in it? Heh. Heheheh.

I'm sure it wouldn't fit. How about 10. Well as many as you could stuff in the nose of P-38.

M.C.202 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 12, 2001, 04:41:00 PM »

Tony said:
I have not been able to find out anything about the Breda aircraft cannon (there was a 20mm AA gun which used the same 20x138B ammo as the German Flak, but that was a monster) and I believe it never saw action, but if you have a good source of info on it I would be very interested.

Tony Williams

From Ordnanace Went Up Front by Roy F Dunlap, C 1948 reprinted in '93 by R&R books, 3020 East Lake BLVB, Livoina NY.

"The Breda M38, called the AFV by the British, is my favorite machine gun, period."
"The British considered the Italian 20mm cannon ammo better than the German-loaded (both used the same size and chamber
dimenisions were identical). Even the Italian 20mm gun was an efficient design-just an overgrown gas-operated machine gun (paired
with the M37 8mm). It was by far the simplest 20mm in use anywhere."

If you don't have this book, it is a fun read. The author was a front line ord guy.

Tac · « **Reply #36 on:** July 12, 2001, 07:48:00 PM »

nah, they could hardly fit the 4 .50's, the 20mm cannon and the gear assembly on that nose. Gimme my gatling and use that space to gimme AMMO. Dang, I REALLY wish this happened, would be might cool!

Tony Williams · « **Reply #37 on:** July 12, 2001, 11:15:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by M.C.202:
"The Breda M38, called the AFV by the British, is my favorite machine gun, period."
[/QB]

Yes, I have the book and it is good. However, I think he was referring to the AA gun. I'm sure that the aircraft gun must have been much smaller, and almost certainly used different ammo.

Tony Williams
Author: Rapid Fire - The Development of Automatic Cannon, Heavy Machine Guns and their Ammunition for Armies, Navies and Air Forces.
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/

M.C.202 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 13, 2001, 12:03:00 AM »

Tony said:
> I'm sure that the aircraft gun must have been much smaller, and almost certainly used different ammo.

I'll see if I can find my info on The Paggio mid engine fighter. It was equiped with the Bereda 20mm. Maybe a model type will be listed.

Any word on if the explosive rifle cal Italian ammo was used air to air? I have real problems with the supposed make-up of it. Nitro in a "porous granular lead" core "armed" by "centrifugal force" pulling the nitro against the jacket...

Don't drop that ammo mate

Vermillion · « **Reply #39 on:** July 13, 2001, 08:53:00 AM »

Tony, get ahold of me plz at vermillion_c@hotmail.com I have some stuff I think you said you were interested in. With the new version of the BBS it doesn't list an email in the profile anymore.

MC202, check out this link
http://www.military-info.com/MPHOTO/P108.htm

In particular the

TM 9-1985-1 British Explosive Ordnance (July 1952); 454 pages, 289 illus. Price 45.00 {Item No. 4236} [Includes: Aircraft bombs, pistols, fuzes, detonators, rockets, grenades, landmines, firing devices and demolition stores]
TM 9-1985-2 German Explosive Ordnance (Bombs, Fuzes, Rockets, Land Mines, Grenades and Igniters)(March 1953); 346 pages, 315 illus. Price 35.00 {Item No.4152} [Vol.1 of 2, TM 9-1985-3 is Vol.2] [Difficult to photocopy, but is readable]
TM 9-1985-3 German Explosive Ordnance (Projectiles and Projectile Fuses) (March 1953); 277 pages, 298 illus. Price 28.00 {Item No.4153} [Vol.2 of 2, TM 9- 198502 is Vol.1] [Difficult to photocopy, but is readable]
TM 9-1985-4 Japanese Explosive Ordnance (Bombs, Bomb Fuzes, Land Mine, Grenades, Firing Devices and Sabotage Devices)(March 1953); 263 pages, 200 illus. Price 27.00 {Item No.3772} [Vol.1 of 2, TM 9-1985-5 is Vol.2]
TM 9-1985-5 Japanese Explosive Ordnance (Army Ammunition, Navy Ammunition)(March 1953); 287 pages, 251 illus. Price 29.00 {Item No.3773} [Vol.2 of 2, TM 9-1985-4 is Vol.1]
TM 9-1985-6 Italian and French Explosive Ordnance (March 1953); 213 pages, 282 illus. Price 22.00 {Item No.2959}

I have both the German ones, and the Japanese documents and they are excellent, and provide in depth information. I figure it will have what your looking for.

If you do get the Italian/French doc, I'll swap a copy with you.