Author Topic: Ain't nothin like a Jeep  (Read 14482 times)

Offline saggs

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2010, 12:00:45 PM »
You all seem to have missed my point, I never said Jeeps were not capable off-road.  Basically Jeeps are great off-road it you don't mind

a) breaking down frequently, if you buy and older one, or if you buy a new one
b) spending WAAAYYY to much $$$, again $34,000 for a Rubicon is just ridiculous. and
c) fitting in with the crowd.

In defense of my Rodeo, when car shopping several years ago I considered the following vehicles, all several years old

Toyota 4runner- Liked them, but resale price was way to high, several thousand more them anything else.

Nissan Xterra-   Liked them as well, loved the interior of them, couldn't find any old enough to fit my budget.

Jeep Cherokee- Didn't like them 2 outa 3 of I looked at the doors wouldn't close properly, I found out this is due to the unibody construction, basically once you flex one out your doors will never close right again. I also don't completely trust the Chrysler drivetrain.  I've seen Toyotas, Nissans, and Isuzus with 300k + miles, I don't think Chrysler engineering is that good.

Rodeo- Fit my budget, like the interior as well, (though not as much as the Xterra) and Isuzu is well known for making dead-nuts reliable engines.  Just look at how many Isuzu NPR diesels are running deliveries and cargo for hours on end everyday in all kinds of traffic.  I am pleased with it, its got 140k on the odometer 60k of which I put on.  I fully expect it to go to 250k at least.  I am rougher then most SUV owners on it, (have the dents to prove it) and it has proven %100 reliable so far.



This is my second Jeep, hand a Wrangler with the "sqaure headlights" That thing would put any rodeo to shame on the trail...sorry Saggs as soon as you started comparing a Jeep to a rodeo you lost me.

BTW the new Cherokees come with a new 4x4 system that you dont have to engage, I couldnt even feel it kick in.....probably because I wasnt spinning at all  :D :aok :salute

I wasn't comparing Wranglers to Rodeos, they are a completely different vehicle class.  The direct comparison would be Rodeo to Cherokee.  Keep in mind they haven't sold the Rodeo in the US since 2004, so we're comparing older models.

Here's my take:

Suspension- Cherokee wins due to solid axle front
Clearance- Tie, both about the same when stock
Approach/Departure angles- Tie look the same to me.
4WD System- Honestly don't know, did the '99 Cherokees come with factory LSD?  Where lockers an option?
Comfort- Rodeo wins due to roomier back seats.
Utility- I think the Rodeo has more cargo space, especially with the spare on the tailgate.
Reliability- Gotta go to Isuzu over Chrysler
Aftermarket- Cherokee, Jeep does have a much bigger aftermarket for parts.
Interior- It's subjective, but I prefer the Rodeos

But I dock the Cherokee 1pt. for the unibody construction, and 1pt just for being a Jeep. :D

Comparing stock to stock, I would say they are pretty equal in off-road capabilities.

The short wheelbase Isuzu Amigo, or Rodeo Sport would be a more accurate comparison to a Wrangler.  Like I said earlier, my experience with the square headlight Wranglers was that they are horribly unreliable.

I realize most Rodeos you see are just mall crawlers, but so are most Jeeps.

Check this out for some Isuzus that definitely aren't mall crawlers.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album43&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

I loooove riling up Jeep owners. :devil  But don't take it to seriously, I could care less what people wheel in as long as their having fun.  My buddy use to try and go off-road in a 1978 2wd Ford Courier p/u, never got very far, but had a ton of fun.  I'm just not a Jeep fan, for those who are, carry on flaming me, trust me I'm used to Jeeps I pass on the trails looking down their noses at me.  But I get to the end of the trail just as often as those Jeeps I pass.

The other thing nobodies brought up yet is driver talent.  An experience off-road driver can get a lot more places in any rig, then a beginner.  Example;  This fall I drove up the final, very steep 1/2 mile to a local peak.  I passed 2 Jeeps, (a Wrangler and Grand Cherokee) at the base of it, they didn't dare attempt it.  There were two rock steps of about 18" to get over, then is was just very steep, loose rock to the top.  I'm sure both those Jeeps could have made it up there, just as well as I did.  But the drivers didn't have enough confidence/skill to attempt it, they were smart not to, if they had panicked and gotten sideways on that hill, they could have rolled a long ways.

My point is that driver skill/knowledge/confidence is a very big factor in off-road capabilities, as well as the rig your in.

Offline saggs

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2010, 12:02:15 PM »
You're kidding, right?

We use stuck H2s as trail markers for the bypass.


My regards,

Widewing

I %100 agree with you there Widewing, H2s= Looks over function.


BTW Widewing, don't take my rants personal,  I agree with you stock Wranglers are probably the most capable out of the factory, (either that or an H3, or possibly a D90 if your not into rock-crawling).  I just have this thing about being different, which is mostly why I'd never get a Jeep.  Also Wranglers are to small for me utility wise, but for pure off-road I agree their very good... ... ... till they break down  :P :P
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 12:07:57 PM by saggs »

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2010, 12:06:51 PM »
FWIW, we go 4-wheeling with Jeep groups too. There is gentle ribbing on "Those Toyota guys" vs "Those Jeep guys" but we all share an interest in getting together for trail rides. That's what counts, not what you drive.

Offline saggs

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2010, 12:10:42 PM »
FWIW, we go 4-wheeling with Jeep groups too. There is gentle ribbing on "Those Toyota guys" vs "Those Jeep guys" but we all share an interest in getting together for trail rides. That's what counts, not what you drive.

Agreed, like I said as long as YOUR having fun in a responsive manner, who cares what anyone else thinks.

Offline john9001

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2010, 12:12:23 PM »
jeep wranglers start at $21,000.

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2010, 12:18:17 PM »
Agreed, like I said as long as YOU'RE having fun in a responsive manner, who cares what anyone else thinks.
Fixed. (Sorry, someone just corrected MY spelling in another thread, so I had to repay someone! :p )

Offline 68ZooM

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2010, 12:33:10 PM »
Any 4x4 can go the same places as the others, its all up to the driver behind the wheel as to "where" a 4X4 can go, most 4x4 owners simply have them for a safer feeling in extreme weather conditions (peace of mind) but still manage to crash them, they dont really know how to drive one they think well its a 4x4 i can go anywhere,  lol flatlanders  lol  Most of the people i go with we all have a variety of trucks and jeeps, we pack winches, Hi-Jacks, you name it im sure one of us brought it, We all get stuck from time to time thats the fun of 4 wheeling, but we also keep it safe and respect the surroundings and remember pack out what you packed in, ive seen to much trash being left, most of the time we end up bringing out alot of trash from just cleaning up as were 4 wheeling out.
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Offline saggs

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2010, 12:35:10 PM »
jeep wranglers start at $21,000.

So what do you get in the Rubicon, that's worth $13,000 more then a base model Wrangler?

Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to buy a basic Wrangler then upgrade it?

Fixed. (Sorry, someone just corrected MY spelling in another thread, so I had to repay someone! :p )

Dangit, I suck at proof reading.  That was supposed to say responsible too, not responsive.

Offline VonMessa

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2010, 12:45:39 PM »


The other thing nobodies brought up yet is driver talent.  An experience off-road driver can get a lot more places in any rig, then a beginner.  Example;  This fall I drove up the final, very steep 1/2 mile to a local peak.  I passed 2 Jeeps, (a Wrangler and Grand Cherokee) at the base of it, they didn't dare attempt it.  There were two rock steps of about 18" to get over, then is was just very steep, loose rock to the top.  I'm sure both those Jeeps could have made it up there, just as well as I did.  But the drivers didn't have enough confidence/skill to attempt it, they were smart not to, if they had panicked and gotten sideways on that hill, they could have rolled a long ways.

My point is that driver skill/knowledge/confidence is a very big factor in off-road capabilities, as well as the rig your in.

A very valid point.

I love my Jeep Wrangler (all of them), and I love breaking the balls of the H3, Toyota, Land Cruiser guys, etc but in the end, it's all in fun.  

The bottom line (after sheer performance of the vehicle) is really driver skill.  If you have none, you are getting into trouble.  The reason is that most guys (but not all) that have any newer model 4x4 vehicles do not know how to off-road in them.   I live right outside of Philly and I pulled out 3 vehicles that were stuck in the snow.. H3, Subaru Wagon, and and a VW Rabbit (old diesel style and to defend him a bit, his fuel had gelled and he was stalled)  The cold hard fact of the matter is........  If you are stuck on your frame, it doesn't matter WHAT you drive, you are screwed.

I have seen it with new boat owners, too.  They drive up to the dock for gas, and don't even know where their fuel tank is, they don't run the blower after getting fueled or before starting, hell they don't even know which side to dock the boat on.  I've seen them tie up at a slip with a single rope (in a slip where the tide comes in and out, mind you like at the Chesapeake Bay, etc) and wonder why the the front 12' of their boat is beached in the Bay sludge.

It's uneducated folks that buy these SUV's and think they can "go anywhere " with them that is the problem.  They are the same ones that think just because they have 4-wheel drive, that they can haul-ass in bad weather.   Get a clue....... NO vehicle is better than any other when trying to stop on ice, brother.

We go to the NJ Pine Barrens a few times a year to go off-roading and we meet all kinds of folks on the trail.  I, personally, detest the Jeep Jamboree they have there every year because they charge a few hundred $'s for something that is completely free if you went by yourself, and they are snobbish about other vehicles.  In fact, we went last September and were doing a clean-up (we always pack-out more than we pack in) and we met a FJ Cruiser club that had brought a landscape trailer that we filled (completely) with trash.  They were very nice to us, and weren't snobbish about us having Jeep's.  They even asked if we wanted to run the trails with them when we were finished the clean-up.  You don;t see too many Jeep groups doing that.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2010, 12:49:45 PM »

Man, your bias is showing.....when buying my cherokee I tested the backseats for how comfortable it was....Im 6'3" sitting behind the seat I made comfortable for me in the driver seat and I fit perfectly fine. The trunk is match only by a suburban..... :aok
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2010, 12:51:54 PM »
Man, your bias is showing.....when buying my cherokee I tested the backseats for how comfortable it was....Im 6'3" sitting behind the seat I made comfortable for me in the driver seat and I fit perfectly fine. The trunk is match only by a suburban..... :aok

I'm 5'4" so the leg/head room is not an issue.  Whatever I can't stuff into or strap onto the Wrangler goes on the hitch mounted cargo rack   :aok
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Offline Wingnutt

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2010, 12:54:26 PM »


The current Jeep Wranglers are the most capable off road vehicles you can by off of a new car showroom anywhere on earth.

My regards,

Widewing



Its also, for the price, probably the wors on-road vehicle on earth.

Crap gas mileage, horrible wind noise, terrible ride, ugly interior.. cant have a nice stereo, because your top will get cut and it will be stolen..  

You spend over 30 grand for something that is really good at one thing, and absolutely horrid at everything else. :uhoh

and I doubt many people buy BRAND NEW jeeps with the intent of off roading exclusively..  so now youve spent over 30 grand at something that sucks at everything you will be doing with it 95% of the time.

money.... well.... spent...


Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2010, 01:01:47 PM »
Wingnutt pretty much nailed why I didn't go with a Jeep.

Now, as far as the claim as the most capable offroad veh  you can buy off a showroom floor, that's definately subject to a person's opinion. Take a look at an FJ Cruiser. Not sure about Jeeps, but a rear locker was standard on my FJ. I literally took it off the showroom floor and went 4-wheeling at Tahuya!

Offline Wingnutt

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2010, 01:11:27 PM »
Wingnutt pretty much nailed why I didn't go with a Jeep.

Now, as far as the claim as the most capable offroad veh  you can buy off a showroom floor, that's definately subject to a person's opinion. Take a look at an FJ Cruiser. Not sure about Jeeps, but a rear locker was standard on my FJ. I literally took it off the showroom floor and went 4-wheeling at Tahuya!

I have a 4 door Tacoma long bed, Its quiet on the road, nice smooth ride seats 4 comfortably, can tow my 28' travel trailer, does not leak, creak, squeek, ive driven it off road plenty at the beach and other places to launch my kayaks, ive never been stuck, if I do I have a detachable winch that I can plug into either the rear reciever hitch, or the front tow mount.. thingy..  so im not getting stuck.

I bought it with 59K miles for 18K and and over the next 5 years it will probably have fewer maintenance problems and less shop time than a jeep purchased new at the same time.
















assuming the accelerator doesent get stuck and shoot me off a cliff OHH!!! :bolt:


EDIT: for the record, I DO like jeeps, i really wish I could find a good quality 50s army surplus one for hunting.  But as far as for a daily driver, I think they are a waste of money 1 trick pony.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 01:14:42 PM by Wingnutt »

Offline 68ZooM

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Re: Ain't nothin like a Jeep
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2010, 01:16:18 PM »
Nice FJ Rip, i was looking at one but went with the F150 FX4 Triton powerplant, Just needed the Truck more for pulling the MasterCraft and Camping gear, was the pics of your FJ taken at lake Tapps?  I used to live there and man it looks like the Lake during the winter there.
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