Squeaker directing air traffic at JFK

[Casca]

Sounds a little hysterical, similar to the tenor of the news coverage.  When you cite "hundreds of thousands" as potentially being put at risk in this situation I envision a legion of kindergartners simultaneously hijacking ARTCC, Approach and tower facilities and providing seperation services.  Hell, I've heard kids on frequency before.  I was dealing with Omaha approach several years ago late at night talking to a little girl.  I could hear dad(?) coaching her when he keyed the mike.

As was pointed out earlier the young man was not providing sequencing, separation or traffic advisorys.  He was saying "Cleared for takeoff", "contact approach" and "adios".  The people that have far more standing than anyone on this board to be outraged about this, the flight crews, were chuckling about it.  Ahhh...it turns out they are actually complicit in this glaring breach of safety...Probably  be a good idea to issue emergency revocation of their certificates as well as ruining the kids day and probably the career of the responsible adult.  This is silly.

[Flipperk]

Its not what did happen..its what could have...

[Casca]

Its not what did happen..its what could have...

Like what?  Maybe like they ran the aircraft off the runway after they were cleared for takoff?  I'd be for gutting that kid from crotch to eyeball with a dull deer antler if he had allowed that to happen.  Guess I see your point.

[Golfer]

Its not what did happen..its what could have...

Using that logic I could get hit by a meteor tomorrow on my way to Chicago.  Does that mean I don't go?

Flipperk it would do you a great service to actually learn what a tower controller does, the scope of their responsibility and how they actually do their job.  You are claiming knowledge and experience with something your words reveal you actually know nothing about.  You have some great misconceptions about what ATC is/does, how they work and what they can actually do which is doing you a disservice.

The kid wasn't sitting at a scope at ZHU (that's the code for the Houston ARTCC) or the IAH TRACON sequencing and separating airplanes.  He did nothing more than pushing the "go" button when it was getting pushed anyway.

Your sensationalism of this non event is mind boggling considering you were quick to spout of your credentials of expertise.

[Flipperk]

Using that logic I could get hit by a meteor tomorrow on my way to Chicago.  Does that mean I don't go?

Flipperk it would do you a great service to actually learn what a tower controller does, the scope of their responsibility and how they actually do their job.  You are claiming knowledge and experience with something your words reveal you actually know nothing about.  You have some great misconceptions about what ATC is/does, how they work and what they can actually do which is doing you a disservice.

The kid wasn't sitting at a scope at ZHU (that's the code for the Houston ARTCC) or the IAH TRACON sequencing and separating airplanes.  He did nothing more than pushing the "go" button when it was getting pushed anyway.

Your sensationalism of this non event is mind boggling considering you were quick to spout of your credentials of expertise.

*sighs* Fine, ill take the high road. Maybe I really do not know the exact responsabilities of ATC...I never really have taken the time go in the tower at KEFD. I will definantly take a trip up there next time I go up.

...i probably just made an a**$ of myself...

[Golfer]

You've been doing that but I'm happy you'll take the opportunity to learn.  Stay up in the cab for a while until things slow down for you.  Look at how they do their job, watch them answer the shout line from IAH/ZHU for releases of traffic and the heads up inbound IFR traffic.  See how the progress of a flight strip goes from clearance issued, to the tower, to the pile.  See what tools they actually have right there to work with.

When you're done there if you can get a tour of the IAH TRACON or any approach facility that will allow you to shadow a controller for a while you'll learn much more about how to ask for what you want in a way that helps the controllers help you.

It will put a picture to the voice and I promise whatever you envision in your mind an ATC position to look like you're in for a learning experience.

[Flipperk]

You've been doing that but I'm happy you'll take the opportunity to learn.  Stay up in the cab for a while until things slow down for you.  Look at how they do their job, watch them answer the shout line from IAH/ZHU for releases of traffic and the heads up inbound IFR traffic.  See how the progress of a flight strip goes from clearance issued, to the tower, to the pile.  See what tools they actually have right there to work with.

When you're done there if you can get a tour of the IAH TRACON or any approach facility that will allow you to shadow a controller for a while you'll learn much more about how to ask for what you want in a way that helps the controllers help you.

It will put a picture to the voice and I promise whatever you envision in your mind an ATC position to look like you're in for a learning experience.

Will do... I will also report back on this as well when I get the chance.  Golfer

[batch]

<-- doesnt have any clue about ATC or their jobs.... I'll say that from the start.......

however I was always under the impression (especially in light of all the air and airport related terrorists acts in the last decade)  that there were federal laws in place governing exactly who was allowed in the tower

now dont get me wrong Im not suggesting a kid in the tower was in any way a terrorist act....... so dont get on your bash horses just yet for the sake of pretending to be tough guys

just simply saying...... and admittedly I am probably wrong apparently...... but I thought there were laws in place that should have prevented any unauthorized person from entering the tower

having said that...... if I am correct (probably not)....... but if I am....... then clearly this was breaking the law........

if not the law then are there rules in place at least? and if there are rules does this violate those rules?

in my mind its not really a matter of "blowing something out of proportion"...... its a case of did they violate any rules or laws?

if  they did violate any rules or laws then they deserve to be punished for their actions........

if there are no rules or laws then why is this even newsworthy?

[Casca]

...i probably just made an a**$ of myself...

Nah, you didn't make an bellybutton of yourself.  I used to take my Private Requirements classes to the Tower and the RAPCON at the local air base (they didn't let us talk in the radio though).  You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

The thing is that I get annoyed with the media that tries to squeeze drama out of an aviation related event in a manner that reflects poorly on the industry.  It is the same mindset that requires any body of water that an airplane winds up in to be "shark infested".  I was surprised to not hear that adjective in connection with the Hudson River when Sully landed there last year.  The mindset that requires all significant aviation events to occur at "30,000 feet" even though that was not a normally authorized altitude prior to the implementation of Reduced Vertical Separation Minimums a while back.  The same mindset that cannonizes a pilot for turning to avoid a school when the poor guy is just trying to find somewhere flat and clear to stick the airplane.

There is sufficient drama in aviation without the infusion of gratuitous dreck that is perpetrated on an ignorant public by the news outlets.  I just see the situation we are  discussing as of a piece with that.

[vonKrimm]

I really do not get what all the bru-ha-ha is about.  Just turn friendly collisions "off" when kids are in the tower.  What could be simpler?

[guncrasher]

didnt read all the replies but anybody remembers the commercial plane that crashed because the pilot father let his son fly the airplane for a few seconds?  I believe it happened in russia. there's somethings that you dont allow your kids to do.  I wont let my kid use the 50 over head crane that I use.  its safe but its not a toy.  same for directing traffic.  its funny but shouldnt be done.

semp

[Casca]

You know, you're right.  I can easily see how letting a kid say "cleared for takeoff" after the tower controller has supervised the procedure to the point of getting the aircraft lined up on the centerline is EXACTLY like letting another kid (he was 15) be sole manipulator of the controls in an airliner full of people.  It's almost eerie and I'm glad the tragedy was averted in this case.

[Cougar68]

didnt read all the replies but anybody remembers the commercial plane that crashed because the pilot father let his son fly the airplane for a few seconds?  I believe it happened in russia. there's somethings that you dont allow your kids to do.  I wont let my kid use the 50 over head crane that I use.  its safe but its not a toy.  same for directing traffic.  its funny but shouldnt be done.

semp

You really should go and read the replies before rehashing the same kind of statements that have already been refuted.  It was a non-event with zero chance for tragedy, end of story.

[RTHolmes]

I'm really surprised by how many here think this is ok, the ATC broke the rules and has been suspended pending investigation. his supervisor likewise. end of story.


edit: btw I spoke to an ex-ATC who worked at JFK about this, he reckoned it was worth a few days suspension...

[Sundowner]

Doesn't a child (or any other non-job-related person or thing) present a potential distraction to the directing controller?

Wasn't the father on duty, actively directing traffic AND supervising his son at the same time?

The potential for distraction is increased when non-work-related tasks are added to the work environment is all I'm saying.
 

Regards,
Sun