The best player's planes jump around everywhere in the films? Why

[TnDep]

I've always tried to be smooth on the stick and make smooth plane movements thinking E management and being able to perform maneuvers quickly due to the speed I've managed to keep.  But when I critique myself against the pilots I'm having trouble with and watch the film from their perspective, their plane is very jumpy and obviously they know something I don't.  If you watch the film from my perspective every movement is smooth and it's obviously causing me to loose the fight.  Are they using alot of rudder or whats the deal with this?

[Lusche]

You can't really watch the film from another pilots perspective. For that you would have to watch his film.

Due to lag (see: How lag affects Aces High) things are looking different on his screen. Also the data about his plane that is being send to you (controller inputs, flightpath updates and so on) is limited.

[TnDep]

I have film from smooth movement fighters and also what I believe are some of the top 10 pilots of the game and there movements aren't smooth.  Lag is not a concern from what I'm talking about it's something different, some may know what I mean but probably only those fighters.  You can mostly see it in flat turns and top of loops and scissors.

[Lusche]

Well, how about posting one or two examples then?

[Messiah]

There's no secrets. Only practice and lots of failing.

[Redd]

I've always tried to be smooth on the stick and make smooth plane movements thinking E management and being able to perform maneuvers quickly due to the speed I've managed to keep.  But when I critique myself against the pilots I'm having trouble with and watch the film from their perspective, their plane is very jumpy and obviously they know something I don't.  If you watch the film from my perspective every movement is smooth and it's obviously causing me to loose the fight.  Are they using alot of rudder or whats the deal with this?

I think there is 2 things you can't see when you watch a film that might explain some of this

One is blackout effect. Sometimes you watch a film and it looks like the person is porpoising  slightly - nose moving up and down . They are probably pulling black out in the turn, and then slighty reducing stick pressure to open up the little window. Because you can't see the black out effect in the film , you might'nt realise that's what they are doing.

The other is possibly stall buffeting , again you don't hear the effect in the film , but their plane is buffeting slightly.

Also I think, the type of duelling you are talking about smooth movements and  E management are less important , than doing whatever you have to do to gain position,
up to and including riding the edge so hard that you are very likely to lose the envelope occassionally.  If you are "too" smooth you might not be riding the edge hard enough.

Also - don't be so worried about not beating the top 10 guys all the time, relax and enjoy beating up  the other 99.9 % of the player base 






 

[Bruv119]

no point in watching fights from their perspective in your film  it will just be as you say not smooth.

Get your opponent to send you a film of the same fight and then your problem goes away.   

[Redd]

no point in watching fights from their perspective in your film  it will just be as you say not smooth.

Get your opponent to send you a film of the same fight and then your problem goes away.   

I thought TNdep was talking about watching their film.. ok ya ignore that, you need to watch the other guys film, not him on your fim ...what bruv said

[TnDep]

ok guys thanks I thought I was missing something, I was going to start making my plane jump all over the place and the plane that jumps the most wins  Redd you prob. right about the blackout ect.  Thanks guys 

[SAJ73]

This explains alot.. I've been wondering about the same thing. Also remember when I started playing this game a couple of years back, I was watching some films with some of the good guys in it.. And I noticed their stick movements in the film (my version of the film) did not look like they had a stick at all.. More like they were flying with a joyball of some kind.. The movements looked just like someone scrolling their fingers over a ball, getting the fast/slow/fast/slow movement, kinda like you scroll fast down a long page with one finger on the mousescroller..

But Redd's blackout and stall buffet explaination sounds like a good explaination for why it looks that way. 

[TnDep]

lol SAJ exactly thats what I'm talkiing about I guess it's just the recorder hope they update that one day, it would surely help us guys trying to improve out a bunch.

[Badboy]

Guys,

Another factor here is the sampling frequency. Your own aircraft data can be collected at your front end at a high frequency, so the motion can appear smoother, but the enemy aircraft data is probably sampled at much lower frequency, partly because it can only be sampled as fast as it arrives over the net, including any change in net lag. Any kinks in the motion may also be influenced by the patented net code that HTC uses to smooth out delays in the data flow. 

This can be apparent if you get a film of the same fight from two players and watch them both one after the other from each players perspective. You can sometimes see that things don't look quite the same from both perspectives, a difference caused by net lag. When you have been playing long enough, you learn to react early to compensate. For example, if you think your opponent is about to get a shot, from his perspective he is probably already pulling the trigger, and you are probably going to hear the pings just as you pull that fancy jink that you just executed a fraction of a second too late. If the film viewer simply updates the film file as the data for enemy aircraft arrives, the film will be influenced by those delays. So if you are looking at a round trip delay between two players of 300ms, and your opponent is flying at 150mph his position will change by over 60ft during that time. For the same two players with a round trip delay of only 100ms the position change at the same speed will be just over 20ft. So fluctuation in net delay between those two values could cause a change in position of over 40ft. Also, changes in stick position will be lost during that time, making stick movements look as though they jump around when the position is updated. It will also depend on if the data sampling rate for the enemy aircraft is fixed at a constant rate in the film viewer or if it is dependant on the data flow rate. Either way, if the Film viewer is recording data at a lower rate for enemy aircraft, that may be the cause of the kind of motion you are observing.

Badboy

[2ADoc]

Thanks for the info, this helps alot, in reference to something that one of my squadies keeps bringing up.

[SAJ73]

Yes, Badboy really cleared things up here.. Now I know what was going on the other day also, when it was impossible to hit a thing for a few hours..
Was aming the same as usual but did not even land one little ping for quite some time, I believe the plane I was shooting at just was not where I thought it was.. 
Heard others had the same problems at the same time period, this was in DA a few days ago. Guess that was just lag issues then.

[FLS]

SAJ73 you're missing a point. The aircraft you shoot at on your PC is exactly where it appears to be. The guy behind you shooting at you is really shooting at your aircraft on his PC. Because of net lag your position on his PC in relation to his aircraft on his PC is not the same as it appears to you on your PC. Net lag affects your defense not your offense.