please give us a 109 g6 with mw50

[eddiek]

So you agree that the 109G10 should be slowed down by using the DB 605D engine, rather than the DB 605ASCM engine?  I'd like to see that myself......'course, it would then make the P-51 the fastest non-perk plane at alt, followed by the Jugs, 109G10, and the 190D9.  Sounds good to me.  Let's do it!    

[Citabria]

why not add in the 109g14?  

[GRUNHERZ]

DB605D is better than DB605ASCM, why would that slow the G10 down? If our G10 has the DB605 that is perfectly normal as all 3000 or so G10 made except the few early ones had the DB605D as did the K4. But K4 was faster than G10 and had other improvemets although it was a bit heavier. It also had improve ailerons with flettner tabs that made it roll better.

[Seeker]

What's a Fletner tab?

<gets confused between flaps, fowler flaps, slots, slats, tabs and other stuff to make the wing more wingy>

[Zigrat]

right now our 109 g types are severely fediddleed up

the paintscheme for the g6 we have should have mw50 (it has the galland hood)

the g10 we have is too fast for a g10

we dont have a k4, the g10 we have is better than a g10 but not as good as a k4.

[gripen]

Originally posted by Seeker:
[QB]What's a Fletner tab?
QB]

It's pretty much same as geared tab (like in the Mustang, Aircobra, Corsair or Ta-152). There were geared tab on the rudder of the late 109 too.

Gripen

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Zigrat:
right now our 109 g types are severely fediddleed up

the paintscheme for the g6 we have should have mw50 (it has the galland hood)

the g10 we have is too fast for a g10

we dont have a k4, the g10 we have is better than a g10 but not as good as a k4.

Galland hood is a long time error in many publications. Galland hood means the heavy frame canopy with so called "Galland panzer" this canopy configuration was installed in many G-6s. The real name is "Erla haube" thus Erla-canopy for example. G6 having Erla haube does not necessarily mean it also had MW-50 installed. Hartmann's G6 which we have in AH (paint scheme indeed is G-6 not G-14/AM like nath and others have stated) didn't have MW-50. It would be great to have G-6/U3 in AH but this particular G-6 didn't have MW-50.

Our G-10 has DB605DCM engine...the most powerful engine that was fitted to production 109s. I can prove it...I just have to host that profile drawing of AH G-10 nath posted some time ago to prove my point.
Expect a post about it in the near future. So damn right it should be fast. It basically should have the same performance as the K-4s equipped with this engine so I think the top speed is pretty close what it should be.

------------------

1Wmaker1
 

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Wmaker ]

[GRUNHERZ]

Zigrat our G10 speed is fine if its the type with the DB605D. Those were nearly as fast as all out  new-build K4. And our G10 is as you say just slightly slower than a K4. The vast majority of the some 3000 G10 conversions had the DB605D. Only a few early types before DB605D was more widely available used the DB605AS engine, this engine was a little bit less powerful and that gave the 425 mph figure commonly associated the early type G10 as well as the G6AS and G14AS. The MW50 G-6 was somewhat slower than 425mph though. One can eaily tell between DB605AS and DB605D planes because the D series required the small oval chin bulges in the lower cowl to accomodate larger cylinder heads and plumbing of the new DB605D engine.

[GRUNHERZ]

"Galland hood" is a misnomer, derived from the following two mid 1943 109G6 developments.

"Galland Panzer" This is the glass head armor we begin to see on 109G6 during the summer of 1943 only a few months after first 109G6 production, it was the most common style of head armor of the 109G6 and WAS used with the standard heavily framed 109G style canopy much more than the all steel armor.
Pretty much only early 109G6 with the tall antenna mast and no DF loop had the steel head armor.

"Erla Haube" This was the clear-view 109G canopy, the one with no vertical framing. It was developed by the Erla Werke a big 109 production center in Leipzig. It first entered service in late summer/autumn of 1943. It almost always prolly 99% of time  had the "Galland Panzer" glass head armor. Ive seen several hundred "Erla Haube" pics and only one or two had the steel armor.

So combine the "Erla Haube" its almost 100%use of "Galland Panzer" and it's easy to see how the innacurate term "Galland hood" developed in the English world. Galland is much more famous than the Erla Werke.

[GRUNHERZ]

The "Flettner Tab" as used on the 109K4 ailerons and on some tall tail 109s was not just +a standard trim surface.

It was an active system linked to the control surfaces that assisted their function. In the 109K4 it increased high-speed roll rate. Which is a very smart thing and welcome change if you know about 109 roll-rates. A 109K4 would be worth to have in AH for that enhancement alone.    

This use of flettner tabs is apparently very effective in incresing roll rates at high speed. For example some early prototype Zeros had flettners put on their ailerons. Their roll rates at high speed incresed so much that wings were actually torn off.   (just an example)

[Seeker]

So tab = trim device, and Flettner tab = pilot controled trim?

(and thx)

[GRUNHERZ]

No Seeker. From what I know it worked like this:

Lets say the right aileron deflected UP.

The flettner tab on the right aileron would then automatically deflect DOWN.

This would then act much as a small flap, adding UPWARD lift to the aileron and making it more both more effective and decresing pilot effort.

They also added this to some tall tail 109 rudders.

Very clever idea which apparently worked very well.

[F4UDOA]

Grippen,

I believe the primary purpose of the "re-design of the PW R2800 from a B block to a C was to allow the use of higher sustained tempatures for longer use of water injection and higher sustained manifold pressures. What the change was I thought was changing the block from a Casted block to Forged block, the forged being much stronger. Somebody with a better knowedge of engines than myself posted that information a while ago. I think I saved it. I will repost if I do.

Later
F4UDOA

[gripen]

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Grippen,

I believe the primary purpose of the "re-design of the PW R2800 from a B block to a C was to allow the use of higher sustained tempatures for longer use of water injection and higher sustained manifold pressures. What the change was I thought was changing the block from a Casted block to Forged block, the forged being much stronger. Somebody with a better knowedge of engines than myself posted that information a while ago. I think I saved it. I will repost if I do.

Later
F4UDOA

Please repost. But here is couple other changes in addition to head and cooling fin changes: Cranckshaft design was totally revamped, nose case was strengthened and redesigned, master rod and link rod strength was increased, rod ratio was increased, reduction gear got more pinions, propeller shaft spline was replaced with larger one, supercharger was refined, retaining method of crankshaft was changed.
To put long story short: It was a total redesign to make engine capable for those over 2500hp ratings. There was no interchangeable parts between B and C series.

Gripen