FSO: Greece 1941 - Adjustments

[ghostdancer]

Gentlemen,

Since I have been asked I need to make some clarifications for frame 2 and frame 3.

• 1. Formations will not be enabled for any bombers (they weren't in frame 1 either)
• 2. Bar Dar is off (they weren't in frame 1 either)
• 3. Dot dar is off (they weren't in frame 1 either)
• 4. MA (auto) bomb sight calibration (they weren't in frame 1 either)
• 5. Enemy icon range will be set to 3000 yards (9000 ft)

On point 5 there was a misunderstanding and enemy icon range was set to 3000 (didn't realize meant 3000 yards which would have been 9000, not just the value 3000. I apologize for this issue in frame 1 and in next frames and future setup will denote exact icon range instead of saying short icon (we now have 4 icon settings in AH and the dot command .icon 1 doesn't seem to change them all .. you have to manually go enter a number value now for each).

Lastly the Brewster will become active for frame 2 and frame 3 for the Allied side.

[Saxman]

Lastly the Brewster will become active for frame 2 and frame 3 for the Allied side.

 

[Shifty]

Got it, thanks. 

[ghostdancer]

Based on the attack results on Yugoslavia I would say part of their airforce will also be available for frame 2. The Germans turned the Eastern Greek defenses but Yugoslavia did a very good job of defending their territory. In the Western Greece it was a mix bag with the western most base taking a pasting by the other more interior base taking moderate damage.

So frame 2 put the Greeks and Brits in a bad position with the loss of Eastern Greece and the Axis doing their best to bend in their flanks and break into the rear.

[Saxman]

Out of curiosity, GD, when determining what parts of Greece "fell," are you taking into consideration attacker vs. defender casualties?

IE: A45 was pasted pretty good, but the German attack suffered 100% casualties to the bombers in the process (not only that, but failed to significantly damage the Allied defenders in the air. The field may have been damaged, but the actual air assets based there were virtually intact, losing only 4 of 26 aircraft).

[ghostdancer]

Sort of a mix of historical and bombing results.

Basically historically the Germans rolled into Eastern Greece from Bulgaria and were stopped cold at the Metaxas line for the most part. However, Yugoslavia collapsed threatening to cut off Greek forces in the East since the Brits and Greeks had very, very light defenses along the Yugoslav front. So they withdrew from Metaxas back to Aliakmon linke.

So yes, air resources are still good for the Greeks / Brits but enough damage was done to their facilities that I decided it is reasonable for them to now fall back to the Aliakmon line. Especially with Yugoslavia seriously threatened. The Yugoslavs actually did well defending their bases in FR1 (historically they would have already capitulated by now) but remember the map is only Southern Yugoslavia and in the North basically the Germans would be beating up the Yugoslavs.

In frame 2 basically the Allies have decided that the Eastern Greece and the Metaxas line is untenable (simulated by destruction of those bases) and pulled back their assets to Aliakmon line (father west).

Yugoslavia is in chaos so the southern Yugoslav forces have pulled back and concentrating on the defense of A58 while they see if Belgrade can withstand the German siege in the North (off map).

While the Italians in the West have done much better than historically but it is still a mix bag.

So yes, I look at losses in the air, damage to facilities, and then also take into account factors that we don't simulate (massive German ground forces hitting Greek ground forces, etc.).

[gyrene81]

Send in the panzers and german troops...that will put an end to the slavs, greeks and bothersome brits.   

[Krusty]

Out of curiousity, can you clarify your #5 comment?

3000 yards is 3k icon range. "Short" icons are usually (traditionally) set to 3k.

So what if that's 9000 feet, the icon stills shows up at the right place, right? In the end, that's the intended result?

Just curious. Whatever you set is what the frame will have.

[ghostdancer]

No problem Krusty.

In the arena setup the settings for icon range are ft. If you enter in 3000 in the field it renders on our end as 3000 ft.

The problem stems from the fact that the dot command .icon 1 doesn't really work anymore for setting icon range since their are now 4 icon field (full range, friendly icon, enemy icon, enemy icon low alt). So each one needs to be set with a number value. On friday the question was asked on what should the value be and the answer was 3000. If the answer was 3000 yards probably would have been no issue. Since you would go .. do I put in 3000 or 9000. But when told the value is 3000 that is what was put in and it rendered as feet.

So in the future #5 means I will be giving the setup CMs the number value I want in the setup field instead of somebody going oh short icon is 3000, when the value actually needed is 9000.

It was a typical human error that happens when a person is stressed trying to setup the arena, get everybody in uniform, and handle everything else .. if I told you 3000 when you were trying to do 4 or 5 other things you probably would also just enter in 3000.

Does that make sense?

[Krusty]

Ah, thank you. Very strange that HTC programed the variable as feet but it displays as yards/km 

[potsNpans]

"# 4. MA (auto) bomb sight calibration (they weren't in frame 1 either)". I'll take a guess and say that auto calibration is implemented. However my reading of it is not certain. Can you clarify?

[ghostdancer]

It should be the same type of bomb calibration that is used in the MA or the simple process versus the long multistep process.

[FiLtH]

  Whats the count on 110s..seemed like they outnumbered 109Es by alot last frame.

[ghostdancer]

They did but it did not violate the min and max I laid out for them.

20 109E-4s
71 110C-4bs
121 I-16s
47 Ju 88s

The axis lost 27% of their single engine fighter force, 55% of their twin engine fighter force, and 50% of their bomber force. They destroyed 54% of their assigned targets.

Axis also fields more pilots overall than the allies in frame 1.



The allies fielded:

37 B25Cs
66 Bf 109s (they could have fielded more than this without violating min/max)
79 Hurricanes
45 P40bs (they could have fielded more than this without violating min/max)
25 Ju88s

The allies lost 54% of their fighter force and 68% of their bomber force. They destroyed 55% of their assigned targets.


Preliminary break down of Frame 1 can be seen at:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284892.0.html

Overall the Axis did a bit better in air to air kills. While the allies did better in bombing of targets. However, the Axis took the frame by 151 points  ... Axis 2826 vs. 2675 allies. Remember single engine fighters are 5 pts, the twin engine 110 is 10 pts, and bombers are 15 points.

Overall from the stats and other reports it was a close battle.

Frame 2 will see the allies getting Brewsters, a bump in P40s, and a small reduction in number of Yugoslav aircraft.