Icon Philosophy - Approach

[Bino]

I think most of you MA pilots can't nutt up to the AvA icon settings... imagine, the nerve of having to ID a unknown bogey...

 

I don't know why some of you try to turn this into a testosterone competition.  Perhaps you're unsure of your logic?

Try to remain civil and rational.  Bluster and sarcasm will NEVER convince me.

Thanks! 

[gyrene81]

Toad, you could have 50k hours as an astronaut, it won't make it possible to count the windows on a passenger jet from a 5, 6 or 7 o'clock position when trailing 12,000+ feet behind and 2,000 feet lower...and that is what I call b.s. At best, you may have been able to discern a few aft windows as tiny dark dots on the fuselage if it was all white or had a light colored stripe painted horizontally along the fuselage where the windows are...but then you could have been looking at identity markings.

Then you come back with those "tests"...using much shorter distances for examples of what can be seen...next thing you're going to tell me is you can see a pilot flipping you the finger from 2 miles, just like you can clearly tell the difference between a volkswagen beetle and a dodge caravan from 4 miles up. And you need to get the sizes of the numbers on the tails correct, are they 8 inches or 12 inches?

You could see the little American flag on US carriers' tails out past a mile. It's not as big as a Spit roundel.

And just for the record, you obviously don't know the actual size or location of U.S. Navy ship flags...the flag does not fly from the stern, it's on the super structure and the standard is longer than the roundel on a Spitfire.

[Toad]

I notice you went from clearly seeing 12 inch diameter windows at 12,172 feet to 10 inch letters at 1250 feet.

No, I went from seeing windows to clearly reading numbers. I am not surprised you don't understand the difference.

The answers to both questions is the same; 1000 feet. No go try to read the numbers on the P-51 tail in AH at 1000 feet or 300 yards or so. If you can see them at all.

[jimson]

First of all, I realize this thread is not about AvA. I also realize that no-icons isn't  realistic, yet neither is glowing red letters.

In the AvA, enemy icons are currently turned off and friendly icons are set at 2000.

This seems to be provide the ability of being able to see who the friendlies are (simulation of being able to see specific tail markings/ identifiers.)

There is no need to identify specific enemy aircraft. Only that they are enemy, which you can do, as no icon=enemy

This seems to be a good balance of creating a more immersive, realistic (appearing) environment by adding some uncertainty at longer ranges etc.

I would not advocate this set-up for anything beyond AvA, but it is quite fun in there.

[gyrene81]

Once again, the visual cues available in AH (outside of zoom) are seriously lacking in AH when compared to real life.

Toad, this is the only thing you have said that nobody is arguing about...and if you had taken the time to read through the responses you would have seen that everyone acknowledges that. HiTech did post somewhere on the forum about what the zoom fuction was meant to do...something to the effect of making up for a lack of visual acuity in standard view.

[Toad]

And just for the record, you obviously don't know the actual size or location of U.S. Navy ship flags...the flag does not fly from the stern, it's on the super structure and the standard is longer than the roundel on a Spitfire.

Thanks for the perfect example of cluelessness.

The American flag refrenced in the example is the one required to be on every international "flag carrier" aircraft. "Flag carriers" display the state flag of the country of their registry.

There's no need to argue over this. Those in doubt can easily see the truth for themselves at any airshow featureing WW2 planes. The airshow season is pretty much upon us.

When I get back tonight, I'll post an easy way to show yourself just how much detail the naked eye can see at distance and then you can relate it to what you see in AH.

[Toad]

HiTech did post somewhere on the forum about what the zoom fuction was meant to do...something to the effect of making up for a lack of visual acuity in standard view.

Yeah, with a near total loss of peripheral vision at the zoom that begins to equate to Mark I eyeball.

He's also coverd the icon issue. You can change the color to blend in to the point of invisibility. You can change the size to a tiny 12 font. You can eliminate icons on your computer. You can have only friendly icons on your computer. You can do lots of things to icons on your computer.

The one thing you can't do on your computer? You can't get anywhere near close to real life visual cues with normal peripheral vision. Period.


Since visual cues (aspect, closure, etc.) are the key to any guns acm....HT came up with a great compromise.

[2bighorn]

First of all, I realize this thread is not about AvA. I also realize that no-icons isn't  realistic, yet neither is glowing red letters.

Options -> preferences -> GUI -> select 'Enemy' on the top drop down list -> use RGB sliders to adjust color

or

use ALT plus I  keys to toggle icon mode. There are 'Friendly only icons' and 'Icons off' modes for immersion fans like you.

[gyrene81]

Thanks for the perfect example of cluelessness.

The American flag refrenced in the example is the one required to be on every international "flag carrier" aircraft. "Flag carriers" display the state flag of the country of their registry.

International flag carrier? I hope you mean "flag ship"...U.S. Navy carriers do not fly the national flag on the stern, flag ship or not...it is on the starboard side of the superstructure.

Yeah, with a near total loss of peripheral vision at the zoom that begins to equate to Mark I eyeball.

The one thing you can't do on your computer? You can't get anywhere near close to real life visual cues with normal peripheral vision. Period.

Since visual cues (aspect, closure, etc.) are the key to any guns acm....HT came up with a great compromise.

Very true, but I can see more detail at distances that are important than you want to believe...18,000 feet is not important...3000 is...and I use zoom to varying degrees...

[2bighorn]

International flag carrier? I hope you mean "flag ship"...U.S. Navy carriers do not fly the national flag on the stern, flag ship or not...it is on the starboard side of the superstructure.

international "flag carrier" aircraft

[gyrene81]

You could see the little American flag on US carriers' tails out past a mile. It's not as big as a Spit roundel.

Didn't realize that translated to airplanes...my mistake.

[Oldman731]

use ALT plus I  keys to toggle icon mode. There are 'Friendly only icons' and 'Icons off' modes for immersion fans like you.

Two quick points:

- Jimson made it plain he doesn't think no-icons is for the MA.  You needn't worry that he's trying to force something on you.

- Turning icons off only for yourself doesn't really address the immersion issue.  Unless your opponent also is faced with the same handicap, you've simply unbalanced the competition in his favor.

- oldman

[TequilaChaser]

There is no need to identify specific enemy aircraft. Only that they are enemy, which you can do, as no icon=enemy

This seems to be a good balance of creating a more immersive, realistic (appearing) environment by adding some uncertainty at longer ranges etc.

if you can not identify the enemy aircraft, specifically, and think there is no need to.. then I guess you are not interested in fighting or knowing which way to fight your unidentified enemy aircraft.......... you are only interested in either "picking the enemy off" without fear of a fight or you are running from a potential fight.......

that is how I decipher your:

There is no need to identify specific enemy aircraft.

true immersion feeling indeed 

[2bighorn]

- Turning icons off only for yourself doesn't really address the immersion issue.  Unless your opponent also is faced with the same handicap, you've simply unbalanced the competition in his favor.

But that's what they're doing. They're not competitive under normal settings. Then they want change the settings because they believe it will benefit them more than others. Cherry pickers dream...

We can talk in about 6 months to a year. We'll see if you'll still have setups with no icons in AvA. My bet is you won't, unless you want to have 4 guys max at peak times.

I think HTC (when it comes to icons) achieved the best compromise between gameplay, immersion, realism and computer/display technology.
Those who want considerable change must have an agenda of some kind, or they didn't put much thoughts into that one.

[NCLawman]

For all the posts about 8" and 12" letters, tails, weenies, or flags, the fact still remains that without the icons, there is no way to discern between a rook P51, a Bish P51, and a Knight P51 (except that the rook P51 will be diving in from 47,000 feet and losing it's ceramic heat shields along the way    )

The reason AvA works is you all leave a particular location and head to enemy territory where you will encounter ENEMY.  Then you can distinguish friendly from foe in the ensuing battle because you are respectively flying planes from one country or another.  As I understand it a US P51 does not encounter or engage a "German" P51.  You either fly Allied Aircraft or Axis Aircraft and you shoot down whichever one your aren't.    

I would dare say (admittedly without any scientific proof or Rasmusen Polling) "no icons" would interest fewer players than "full icons".  And, removing said icons would be more detrimental to the player base than leaving them.  However, that having been said, if your 'cup-of-tea' is to play without icons than you already have that option in the AvA arena.  If you are only concerned with those who share a like mind for the "no icons" and are not looking to change the player base (as I read in one post above), then the solution is right in front of you.  Go to the AvA and all those who WANT to play without ICONS can do so in that arena.  If in fact, that arena never gets more than a few persons, then that should answer your original post.... people are not 'generally' interested in flying with "no icons".  If that arena does fill up with like minded players, then you also have an answer and have the solution you were asking for.

So, the point of this post is simply that what you want is already there!  Just go with it.  If you don't get interest, then there isn't much interest in the original post and it would be wrong to force the vast majority of players to 'have to play' (your way) with no icons.