Author Topic: To those people who fly the AVA:  (Read 2888 times)

Offline Chilli

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2010, 01:21:53 PM »
If the AvA is aiming for realism then the indestructible radar makes perfect sense in the European theater. Getting rid of radar and effective command and control was not possible with a few bombs in Europe.

As someone with lots of experience with no icon arenas, the combination of no radar and no icons kills numbers very fast, especially in a big terrain. If you can't find the fight, you don't fly in the arena.

Instead of thinking of game radar as equivalent to its real world counterpart one should think of it as the total system used to detect track and intercept hostile aircraft by both sides. Electronic means were used alongside visual reports in every theater. Radio was used to give the information to the pilot. Instead of radio calls we get pretty colored dots.

 :aok

Doc,

I would hope that you could step aside from your personal feelings about radar, and look at the entire picture, as stated above.  We had a brief discussion about this earlier this week, you and I.  I just want to add 2 of the points I wish that you would give consideration to.

  • Why give one country an advantage / disadvantage with radar enabled here and not there? 
  • It is very disappointing to enter an arena looking to engage in a fight, see the base flashing and fly for 15 minutes with no success.  That is when you will find more and more potential players logging off.

As you pointed out this is not the Main Arena (large numbers available to defend every flashing base, with the added luxury of a 6,000 ft icon range for enemy).  Why hide?  Are you in a goon trying to capture bases unopposed?  <- Not an accusation, but the only reason that I could think of where I don't want to be spotted.

Posted by gyrene81:
No need to apologize, nothing out of line here. I also suggested to Jaeger that something be done about dar porking. Players enter the arena, selectively pork a few radars then sit back and wait for the opposition to launch and feel like they've gained an edge.

In an arena with lower numbers and very low icon settings radar helps create and sustain the fights. Most players in the AvA don't use radar as a substitute for good SA once the fights on but it does help people find the fight in the first place. The CM is simply trying foster game play and build some momentum in the arena. Seems the decision to make radar porkable again is a bit premature.


 :aok

So, it seems that I was not the only "someone" who has a problem with the easy destruction of radar and its effect on this "no enemy icon" arena.  I just assume that it is a carry over from other arenas, where the focus is entirely different. 

Previously, I have asked folks not to take dar down, with a brief explanation.  The response is usually, along of the lines of sorry, I wasn't trying to ruin anyone's fun.  So, I have come to the conclusion that it is just a programmed decision to do so, with out any real consideration for the impact it has on the arena as a whole.

Porking Radar -2

Radar Porkers (given a pass)

Offline captain1ma

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2010, 03:12:04 PM »
actually right now its set to die for only 10 minutes, so they'll have to keep bombing it if they want it to stay down. i can harden it a bit more too if necessary

Offline DktrEvil

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2010, 06:37:23 PM »
:aok

Doc,

I would hope that you could step aside from your personal feelings about radar
Quote
I prefer to them as opinions and they're the only kind I have (personal ones)
, and look at the entire picture
Quote
My opinions reflect what I think would be good for the "entire picture". If you think my views are looking at the "small picture" that's fine
, as stated above.  We had a brief discussion about this earlier this week, you and I.  I just want to add 2 of the points I wish that you would give consideration to.

  • Why give one country an advantage / disadvantage with radar enabled here and not there? 
    Quote
    Not sure what this means, I thought radar could be destroyed for both sides.
  • It is very disappointing to enter an arena looking to engage in a fight, see the base flashing and fly for 15 minutes with no success
    Quote
    Agree with this, would not find it fun either
    .  That is when you will find more and more potential players logging off
    Quote
    I can see how this would happen if the previous happened regularly
    .

As you pointed out this is not the Main Arena (large numbers available to defend every flashing base, with the added luxury of a 6,000 ft icon range for enemy).  Why hide?  Are you in a goon trying to capture bases unopposed?  <- Not an accusation, but the only reason that I could think of where I don't want to be spotted
Quote
No matter what I say to this one it will be picked apart because most all of it will involve shooting down unsuspecting pilots (bombers as well as fighters), besides anyone can get my opinions on this from many of my older posts if they choose
.

Basically, I am very excited we have a no-icon arena and that the arena is AVA.  It's been a long battle to get to this point.  I'm sure settings will change again before it's all said and done and may never be made "permanent" at any point.  There will never be settings that make everyone completely happy so I hope it settles at a happy medium (between the no-icon crowd and the I need settings to offset the fact you have no icons crowd) and not go to the extreme on any setting.

I don't like going back and forth attempting to answer everything that is posted about me or about a subject I feel strongly about so I try to say my piece and move on when I can.  I do speak up in the arena chat buffer sometimes so if you (meaning anyone) want to discuss anything in the arena feel free but don't to brow beat me if I disagree with you. We all have a right to our opinions, this is America of course!
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Offline TheBug

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2010, 06:46:08 PM »
So what is the 10 minute down time suppose to do?  Just be a minor pain in the arse?

Some how that idea seems fitting.
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Offline DktrEvil

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2010, 07:27:53 PM »
So what is the 10 minute down time suppose to do?  Just be a minor pain in the arse?

Some how that idea seems fitting.

Point taken, LOL.
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Let this be a lesson to you all that this organization will not tolerate .......... F-a-i-l-u-r-e!

Offline Chilli

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2010, 04:50:13 AM »
Quote
No matter what I say to this one it will be picked apart because most all of it will involve shooting down unsuspecting pilots (bombers as well as fighters), besides anyone can get my opinions on this from many of my older posts if they choose

Okay, Doc I think I have a better idea of your motivation, and I agree that slipping in for a surprise attack on a large group of bombers or fighters does have its appeal from the stand point of actual tactics deployed at the time.  :cheers:

The upside to the arena settings with no enemy icons, is that you still are able to deliver that surprise.  The dar dots don't give away anything other than an approximate location, not altitude, direction or speed (all things that the lil red banner used to tell us).  I have filmed our squad scrambling to dodge such an attack.  :joystick: The vox chatter was quite excited, and our survival instincts were tested.  :uhoh  This all happened so quickly that dar dot gave us little warning at all.  That may have been the exception, or just an exceptional pilot, but it ended up being an experience that I wouldn't mind returning to.

Offline captain1ma

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2010, 10:26:13 AM »
the 10 minute setting was a test. i have now finished with the test and the radar has normal down times. people wanted to kill the radar, but see dots too, so i had to figure it out.

thank you for your patience and understanding while we test some odds and ends to see what works and what doesn't. I especially enjoyed the words of encouragement from the community.

Offline SlipKnt

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2010, 03:42:32 PM »
Hey AvA community!!!   :salute

I have an idea that MIGHT get you more participation I'd like to pitch...

I know you want more numbers more often.  AvA is a worthwhile arena.  I need to get in there more often myself.

I would like to offer at least one idea for consideration.

On the "off" FSO night (or Saturday nights for more frequency), set up a huge event.  You should try to target the FSO community to bulid on your numbers in the arena.  Then the addiction starts from there.

One thing I have noticed is that the MAs are not aware when events are occurring in AvA.  I think that the "CM" should be able to type out to the other arenas (in the light blue text we often see for other events) in order to advertise an event a couple hours in advance then every 30 minutes until it opens up for battle.  Possibly run it as a snap shot in the beginning to get players attention in AvA. 

My humble opinion is that AvA doesn't get the advertisement it deserves.  I see people trying to spread the word during normal play but that really isn't enough. 

If you guys decide to set up a night in which you offer a major event, I bet you can get some FSO squads to play in there.  I would start there if I were you.  If I knew what the schedule was, I could attempt to recruit some of my squadies in there.  I think we'd have a goo dtime in AvA with good numbers on both sides. 

Just my opinion.

 :salute
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2010, 04:01:38 PM »
There aren't any actual "events" in the AvA. Setups are run for a week at a time (it was Thurs thru Wed but I think it's moved to Fri thru Thurs)...once in a while Jaeger will setup a "warz" type thing and advertise it heavily in the forums, just not as an announcement on the arenas like special events do.

Not sure how a "special event" would play out on the AvA but...never know.
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline captain1ma

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2010, 04:57:20 PM »
slipknt how are you on a monday night? i might set up a massive bombing raid?? what say you?

Offline SlipKnt

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2010, 05:57:45 PM »
Depending on time, I can make a bombing run...  Want me to bring a few?  What time and which plane / ord???

Regarding my post.  While I understand the weekly thing (or group of days), like I saw earlier in some postings, I wouldn't want to come in to the arenas to take bases if others are not on.  We would want a fight.  And if not take a base, run some CAP missions.  Fighter sweeps, bomber escorts, etc...

It is a good opportunity for my squad to run some squad tactics training and FSO training.  Additionally, the post is more about getting larger squads to visit and participate in AvA.  Again, my proposal would be to get something going on the off night for FSO.  If advertised properly, you may get a good showing.  Believe it or not, there are some VF15 members that wouldn't mind partaking in such an event.  We do have good SOP on wingman flight and would love the training and opportunity to employ it in AvA.  

I know we often get accused of hording, but to the trained eye, we are working as "1" and employing wingman tactics, SA, and flight discipline.  It would appear that AvA may be a good place to do this.

Let me know about the time for Monday.  I wouldn't mind coming for that.  Manual calibration, correct?

 :rock
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 06:01:29 PM by SlipKnt »
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Offline captain1ma

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2010, 06:50:38 PM »
shoot, just realized i cant do it on monday night. how about tuesday night?? how does that work. i have to look at the map to see what we can blow up but that shouldnt be too much trouble.

bring as many friends as you like, we're good up to 200, which i believe is the cap on the AVA.

still havent decided what to use, you want 17's??

Offline gldnbb

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2010, 06:52:07 PM »
Keep me posted on when... Hopefully it would be Tuesday night for me to participate,  if not,  I'll still let the LCA squad know about the Monday night thing  (since I'm busy Monday nights)
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Offline SAJ73

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Re: To those people who fly the AVA:
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2010, 03:55:34 AM »
Hope to see the day/night rotation in the future also, and don't mind to see the night last a little longer so its possible to plan a nightraid or whatever.
Also feel free to play some with the color settings of Clouds/sky/fog making some overcast looking maps with dark grey sky from time to time? Just to add some thrill and randomness to the arena. Think that will help to catch the interest of new people just dropping in to have a look, let them see something new and different from all the other arenas.

 And for the :old: buggers perhaps some change would be just good for the heart.  :aok


 :noid
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