center trim axis's

[lengro]

That's with combat trim on isn't it?

Yes - hence the change in trim settings during the loop.

I thought you said you wanted all trim axis centered with combat trim off?

I did and I do

Otherwise you're talking manual over ride of combat trim while it's engaged.

how is that different from: disable combat trim and move all trim settings to center (and stay there until I again select combat trim)?

[gyrene81]

how is that different from: disable combat trim and move all trim settings to center (and stay there until I again select combat trim)?

Well, it's a little different programming. Think of it as taking a dynamic setting that self adjusts and manually locking it in one position with a switch vs turning the automated process off, setting a position and leaving it there. I could understand wanting a quick way to return the trim to level flight values instead of relying on auto pilot slowly resetting it. You're video has me a bit confused I guess. I was thinking you were going to show what you consider to be the advantage of all trim axis centered in maneuvers vs combat trim.

[lengro]

Well, it's a little different programming. Think of it as taking a dynamic setting that self adjusts and manually locking it in one position with a switch vs turning the automated process off, setting a position and leaving it there. I could understand wanting a quick way to return the trim to level flight values instead of relying on auto pilot slowly resetting it.

cc - the end result is the same - Hitech can coad it as he please

You're video has me a bit confused I guess. I was thinking you were going to show what you consider to be the advantage of all trim axis centered in maneuvers vs combat trim.

I hardly think I can call it an advantage - rather a possibility to have consistency between my joystick deflection and the planes control surface deflection. Put a real ww2 plane in a steady climb and then hold and dont move the stick - speed will drop and eventually you will stall. The same scenario In AH with combat trim on: the elevator (and the graphical representation of the stick on screen) will move as you slow down, slightly affecting your climb - even though you don't move your physical game controller.

I really don't suggest anything new, just an easier way to do whats already possible in the game.

[gyrene81]

I understand...I never use combat trim...come to think of it, I'm pretty sure a lot of people turn it off...

[Ghosth]

Actually lengro that is why I suggested cycling your CT on and off once at the speed your going to dogfight in.

That will set your trim to neutral for that speed/alt or close to it.

The other thing you have to remember is that any use of Autopilot also changes the trim.
If your on level autopilot at 350 mph, then go to manual flight, your trim is still set for level flight at 350 mph.
Even though you may be at 140 mph in a turn fight.

Setting the bars dead center may not be the answer your looking for.

Cycling CT on and off, assuming you do it at the speed you dogfight at, will set it "close" to where you want it.

If you want it other than that, then your entering the world of manual trim, and having to put it manually where you want it. But where you want it is not necessarily centered on the bar. As that may leave you farther out of trim than you were.  What you want is to trim it to "hands off" at the speed your going to be fighting at.

[lengro]

Ghosth,

I fully understand and appreciate your suggestions.
However, a 1v1 merge often start at slightly above corner velocity and then develops into an aggressive rolling scissors fight with flaps going up and down, and speeds where planes almost stand still on the top of the circle. Throttle is going from zero to full WEP during the fight. You are constantly adding and removing torques and forces to the airframe.
Is there a manual trim setting to this scenario that is more right than wrong? Maybe - but if I start out with an untrimmed plane, where control surfaces are at mechanical neutral position when no joystick input is applied, I have a reference to work from (feel the force )
Is combat trim better? Maybe - at least (for the most part) I don't have to deflect my controllers as much during the fight.

I guess its all a matter of different people - different preferences.

But as I said - I can already do the requested in game, and often do it - I'm just asking for an easier way to do it.

<S> 

[Ghosth]

Lengro sir I understand, I'm just not sure this is a fixable problem.
Your so far out there now, that your fighting the limitations of the system.


No I don't think CT is better necessarily, well better than what is the first thing that has to be defined.

Better than out of trim, controls feeling "off" or mushy, yes.
For me I'm lazy, the more pilot load I can remove the happier I am.
So yes CT is on for me, mostly.

When I do fly with CT off, If I do get into a wicked fight, esp if I was at 8k trimmed for fast, about the 2nd merge I'll cycle CT on and off in less than a second.  Because I know that at least trim is now set for "close" to this speed, not 350 mph or faster when I was in level flight.

I understand what your asking for and why. I think for the majority of people it would cause as many problems as it solves.

Next time your in one of those bleeding edge fights with Bighorn. If your film is on, go back and look in the film at where your trim is actually set to.  Then in the same situation see where the period  .  sets it to.

Truly I believe that for you trim is the butterfly wing that caused a hurricane half a planet away.
However I could be wrong, I'm not perfect.

<S> Loads of respect headed your way as always sir!

[Rebel]

Get yourself a decent HOTAS with trim wheels.  That's the only way that's gonna work.

For keyboard trimmers, there's no real reason to do it as you describe. 

[hitech]

I still have no idea why you would want the controls at trim 0 position. You have stated you wish them not to move(i.E. no combat trim)this I understand. But simply returning them to center would be a very bad thing in flight. You do realize that moving them to center would make some planes uncontrollable at some speeds?

The 0 center point on the system really is meaning less. And I am not sure you understand that on almost all real aircraft trimming the plane moves the stick and control surface the same as moving the stick by hand does.

For some reason I think you are asking for something that would work different than you expect.

HiTech

[lengro]

Next time your in one of those bleeding edge fights with Bighorn. If your film is on, go back and look in the film at where your trim is actually set to.  Then in the same situation see where the period  .  sets it to.

Truly I believe that for you trim is the butterfly wing that caused a hurricane half a planet away.
However I could be wrong, I'm not perfect.

<S> Loads of respect headed your way as always sir!

<S> Ghosth, thanks for suggestions - all respect back at you, sir!

[lengro]

Get yourself a decent HOTAS with trim wheels.  That's the only way that's gonna work.

For keyboard trimmers, there's no real reason to do it as you describe. 

cc - analogue trim wheels is much easier to center

[lengro]

I still have no idea why you would want the controls at trim 0 position. You have stated you wish them not to move(i.E. no combat trim)this I understand. But simply returning them to center would be a very bad thing in flight. You do realize that moving them to center would make some planes uncontrollable at some speeds?

I understand that having trim at 0 position would force me to hold my rudder pedals and joystick in an off-center position if I wanted straight and level flight.
But it's only for use in hard turnfighting where I constantly work with all game controllers.
My goal is to learn the forces acting on the plane and how much joystick deflection it takes to counter them.

The 0 center point on the system really is meaning less. And I am not sure you understand that on almost all real aircraft trimming the plane moves the stick and control surface the same as moving the stick by hand does.

I do understand that - I also understand why its a good thing when cruising from A to B.

For some reason I think you are asking for something that would work different than you expect.

I do it often when testing limits in 1vs1s - my request was only an easier way to get to that setup.

By now I also realize I'm confusing people with this request, that alone is a good reason not to continue with this feature to the other 99.9% of players.

I truly thank you for spending time trying to understand why I asked for this feature <S>

[Ardy123]

I can think of no reason why you would ever want to simple put the trim tabs in the indicated zero position. Are you assuming the trim tabs remove performance, if so, they do not. combat trim works like Krusty said.

The only reason I can think of that anyone would ever want to fly a plane out of trim is to assist in a pull out of a high speed dive. Am I missing something?

iTech

I frequently fly with combat trim off and just center the trim because when fighting, if I drop flaps & combat trim is on, it fights me and makes my nose wanna bounce upwards, as it doesn't correct for the flaps being dropped. Granted, if I take my hands off the stick and my feet off the rudder pedals, the plane is not coordinated, I just adjust by always giving a little input on the rudder pedals and the stick.

[hitech]

I frequently fly with combat trim off and just center the trim because when fighting, if I drop flaps & combat trim is on, it fights me and makes my nose wanna bounce upwards, as it doesn't correct for the flaps being dropped. Granted, if I take my hands off the stick and my feet off the rudder pedals, the plane is not coordinated, I just adjust by always giving a little input on the rudder pedals and the stick.

Andy I understand why people turn combat trim off, but are you saying you look at the needles and move all 3 to the center?

HiTech

[lulu]

Hi,

I suggest to enter an option to eliminate torque on all planes !
And to use trim axes or three new axes to add additional input on ailerons, elevator and rudder.
This introduces a very way and more fun triming axes system as to me.