Rangefinder for Panzer?

[popeye]

Didn't the Panzer have an optical rangefinder?  Would it be possible to implement some model for it in AH?

Would make the Panzer a much better Osty killer.    

popeye

[flakbait]

Nope, no Panzer ever had a range finder. Handbook on German Military Forces lists nearly every optical sight used, and none had a range finder. Actual range finders were used by 88mm batteries in the AAA role. A typical AAA control system consisted of:
1) 2-16 meter range finder
2) fire control system
3) fire co-ordination trailer

No tank I know of during WWII had a range finder.




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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000

[Stiglr]

See Panzer Elite for more on this.

The German optics were far superior to the Allied optics. They had a magnified view, where the Allied units did not. The Shermans had a simple, 2D elevation system, with a different crosshair at several elevations, graduated by distance.

For a "rangefinder", the German tanks had a series of triangles that represented 1 or 3 mils. With the range manually set at 1km, you would use these triangles as guides to size up enemy units and guess their ranges (from what I hear, the width of a thumb at arm's length was a good guide to use when you didn't have your head stuck in the sight).

[popeye]

Uh... okay, I withdraw my request.  

Thanks for the info.

popeye

[Fishu]

Allies will have good bonus when they get magnification aka gun zoom.

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Allies will have good bonus when they get magnification aka gun zoom.

Fishu,

The zoom will be more than negated by the weak gun the allies had. The German armor was far superior to the Sherman in gun capability and the ability of the tank to take a hit. American armor (and early T34's prior to the high velocity upgrade) could not penetrate the German tank frontally at any range over a couple hundred yards / meters. The best tactic was to negate the German gun and range advantage by rushing into the German formation and fire into the German armor from the sides and rear and at as close a range as possible.

When the Americans finally brought out a major high velocity round equivalent to the 88 in performance then they could stand off and fire. The 90mm late in the war could do some serious damage but it was way late when the war was already decided.

Mav

[Pongo]

The Panther F had a optical range finder in the design but it did not enter production.
Panzer Truppen where often issued with rangfinders. And even more commonly the Sturm Artillery were issued with them.
You will often see picturs of Panzer commanders with them in their hands.
For the most part it is quicker to fire the range in.

[-lynx-]

Well... I think we need some kind of a rangefinder whethere bleeding things had them or not - I take a pair of eyes looking at a distant target as a rangefinder over the same pair of eyes trying to guess the distance to a few dots on a computer screen anytime...

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lynx
13 Sqn RAF

[Thog]

Maverick; largely true, but PzIV(any) had about the same armor as a Sherman, and not sloped.  So it was pretty vulnerable even to the 75L38 the Shermans carried.  

Also note that the tungsten rounds that later Shermans carried in the 76mm guns could penetrate even a Tiger I at 500m+.  These were rare rounds (maybe 1 in 50), but they made a huge difference. In this situation, the better German optics did count for allot in the ability to land the first shot.

Thog

[Maverick]

There was a crude but effective range finder that was used in the early tank days. It was only a set of lines scribed in the sight itself. Think or it as a curved sided funnel. The target was placed in the retical and elevated until the ends of the target contacted the sides of the "funnel". This gave a crude indication of the ranges based on an arbitrarily set length of the target vs a predetermined drop for the round at a given distance.

I am not sure I am describing it right but here goes.

Example (figures given are arbitrary for example only)

The Panzer is 25 feet long.

At 500 meters / yards there should be no elevation needed to hit as that would be in the bore sight trajectory range of the gun. You shoot dead on with the target at the top of the funnel as both the front and rear of the target are in contact with the sides of the "funnel".

At 1000 meters / yards the apparent length of the target is shorter and you must raise the sight to put the sides of the "funnel" in contact with the target. This inputs an appropriate amount of super elevation on the gun to allow a hit at that range. This continues to the max range of the sighting system and gun.

Problems with this system are it depends on a fixed length of a target. Smaller vehicles seem farther away. Larger ones cause you to shoot short. Angle on the target (as opposed to a full flank shot) change the apparent length of the target. Head on or tail on shots are still a "guestimate"  for the gunner. It assumes the distance and size of the image on screen have a uniform relationship. (target is not displayed as larger than life on the screen)

Advantages with this system.

It is very fast. It does not require the use of icons for ground vehicles. It is realistic.

Mav

[hitech]

The horizontal lines in the tank sight are 5 mils wide. Head on the tanks are 5 mils at 750 yards.

You can do the range estimations with the 5 mil lines already.

HiTech