Hey Skuzz, was thinking of u this week end.

[321BAR]

I'll take a 1965 427S/C Cobra not kit car version anyday over the CSX...

OR my dream car the...

Can anyone guess the Porsche model by any chance? Alot of porsches look very alike

[Skuzzy]

First racing Cobra, CSX2002.
(Image removed from quote.)

It is a poor restoration then.  I thought that is what it was, but the rear and front flares are not right or the angle of the photo is distorting them.  That is why I wished for a better photo.

The hood scoop diffuser is also not correct.  CSX2002 did not have an oil cooler either.  Those came after the 390 experiments and were standard on all big blocks.  The only small block Cobras to get the oil cooler were the FIA cars and a few were added later on as an after thought (there was no oil cooler scoop on CSX2002).

Overall, a nice catch though.

======
321BAR, the Cobra in your picture is a kit, not an original.

[2bighorn]

Skuzz, that's the one from Shelby American Collection owned now by Larry Miller. It's original csx2002, restored by Geoff Howard. Front flares are correct and as they were found on street csx roadster (front and rear). 2002 had rears enlarged (it's a FIA racer). The hood is original (including scoop). None of the early FIA racers had oil scoops at first, they were added later on all 289ers (in 64 or 65 I think). All cobra FIA racers pretty much changed their looks from race to race, so it's kinda hard to argue how they should look like.


 

[321BAR]

It is a poor restoration then.  I thought that is what it was, but the rear and front flares are not right or the angle of the photo is distorting them.  That is why I wished for a better photo.

The hood scoop diffuser is also not correct.  CSX2002 did not have an oil cooler either.  Those came after the 390 experiments and were standard on all big blocks.  The only small block Cobras to get the oil cooler were the FIA cars and a few were added later on as an after thought (there was no oil cooler scoop on CSX2002).

Overall, a nice catch though.

======
321BAR, the Cobra in your picture is a kit, not an original.

really? you know your cobras sir   but nobody knows the porsche yet?

[SFRT - Frenchy]

I share Bighorn's answer.
WMLute, I hear u there, but we are talking about a man with quite an ego proportional to his age.
321BAR, 997 GT2? BTW why do u like it better than the Turbo, or GT3 ... or SC? GT2 is RWD only right?

... to me the Cobra is not all that. Cool car indeed, but it's like those old ACDC songs that u ear 5 times a day on the radio. I'd rather have a Daytona kit car over a Cobra.

[OOZ662]

Here comes the sacrilege!



To the bunker!

[321BAR]

I share Bighorn's answer.
WMLute, I hear u there, but we are talking about a man with quite an ego proportional to his age.
321BAR, 997 GT2? BTW why do u like it better than the Turbo, or GT3 ... or SC? GT2 is RWD only right?

... to me the Cobra is not all that. Cool car indeed, but it's like those old ACDC songs that u ear 5 times a day on the radio. I'd rather have a Daytona kit car over a Cobra.

GT3 is actually less of a car than the GT2 series ( the GT3 was made as a compromise for lower price compared to the GT2s) and the Turbos react on tracks as equal to or even worse than the GT3s. The newest Caymen S and the Boxter S types can actually run a course in the same amount of time as the Turbo. Just because the Turbo is AWD doesnt mean it handles better than RWD...  Many people believe that just because its the GT3 and the third line in the GTs its better than the GT1 or GT2... Those people got it backwards The 911 GT1 is usually an F1 Car , the GT2 is one of the best road-going cars and the top of the line 911 model and because its the 997 series its the best of the best in the 911s. -----523bhp, 501lb ft of torque, accelerates from 0-62 in 3.7 seconds, to 100mph in 7.4, and tops out as stock built at 204mph... and also, the 911 Turbo doesnt mean its the only 911 allowing turbos if youre confused with that... In fact the 911 GT2 is based upon the 911 turbo and comes as stock WITH a turbo  because the use of RWD over the Turbo's AWD it is significantly lighter and includes a more powerful engine and a stiffer suspension calibration system... Very nice on the 997, or was that a guess compared to the 996? alot of people cant compare them they look so much alike

Edit: in the end... if you want the precision accurate feeling that posches give going around corners and the speed and acceleration and good looks of a very nice european sports car, you need the Porsche 911 GT2 - 997 series

[321BAR]

Here comes the sacrilege!

(Image removed from quote.)

To the bunker!

AHH!!!!! MY EYEEEESSSSS!!!!!

[Skuzzy]

Skuzz, that's the one from Shelby American Collection owned now by Larry Miller. It's original csx2002, restored by Geoff Howard. Front flares are correct and as they were found on street csx roadster (front and rear). 2002 had rears enlarged (it's a FIA racer). The hood is original (including scoop). None of the early FIA racers had oil scoops at first, they were added later on all 289ers (in 64 or 65 I think). All cobra FIA racers pretty much changed their looks from race to race, so it's kinda hard to argue how they should look like.

It all depends on what your definition of "original" is then.  

The flares on the restored car do not match the original flares at all.  The original fender flares were very crude.  The fender wells were cut out, by hand, and flat pieces of aluminum welded into place to cover the tires.  This car has been modified to include elements from the street versions of the Cobra and race (FIA) versions as well.

CSX2002 did not have a hood scoop to start with.  None of the Cobras, prior to CSX2127 had hood scoops.  The early cars had them added on later.  Whether you want to call this a point of contention as to it being an "original" or not is a purist matter, I suppose.  CSX2002 originally did not have an oil cooler either.

I do not see this car as an "original" restoration.  It is a good, comtemporary restoration, but it is not an "original" restoration.  For it to qualify as an original it would have been restored to its original form in which it left the shop/factory.  CSX2002 was not an FIA roadster and this car has been altered to FIA regulations.

Serial #'s 2259, 2260, 2301, 2323, and 2345 were the original FIA roadsters.  This restoration looks more like CSX2259, which was an FIA roadster and also happened to wear the number 16.  I found a picture (I wish I could post the pictures I have) of it in my collection and this restoration comes closer to matching CSX2259, than the original CSX2002.

[RTHolmes]

Voila ...le vroom vroom.  

(Image removed from quote.)

looks like a MkII to me, 289?

My Dad had (recently sold it) an AC Bristol.

pretty sure they were called AC Ace in US too, maybe known as AC Bristol to specify the Bristol 2.0l rather than AC 2.0l straight six earlier cars had? some later ones also used a Ford 2.6l straight six.

lovely car, why sell it?

I saw an Aceca last summer, very rare, very beautiful, like this but BRG

[RTHolmes]

GT3 is actually less of a car than the GT2 series ( the GT3 was made as a compromise for lower price compared to the GT2s)

The 911 GT1 is usually an F1 Car

  GT3 is not a compromised or cheaper version of the GT2 at all, its a more track oriented development of the carrera. with a few tweaks it becomes the GT3 RS for even more track bias. a few more tweaks and its a GT3 Cup for single make series racing. couple more tweaks and its a GT3 R for racing in FIA GT3 class. couple more tweaks and its a GT3 RSR for racing in FIA GT2 class.

unlike the GT2, the GT3 has a clear racing development path. I'm not even sure if the GT2 is raced, certainly not in the FIA GT2 class. Ive always wondered what the point of the GT2 is, apart from having a limited numbers uber-911 to sell in the middle east. the name is certainly misleading.

911 GT1 has never been an F1 car, as the name suggests its a LMP-type race car homologated for FIA GT1 class.

[Masherbrum]

is that a real one or a kit car?

Real.   Looks like a 289, possibly C0X2002.  

[Masherbrum]

It all depends on what your definition of "original" is then.  

The flares on the restored car do not match the original flares at all.  The original fender flares were very crude.  The fender wells were cut out, by hand, and flat pieces of aluminum welded into place to cover the tires.  This car has been modified to include elements from the street versions of the Cobra and race (FIA) versions as well.

CSX2002 did not have a hood scoop to start with.  None of the Cobras, prior to CSX2127 had hood scoops.  The early cars had them added on later.  Whether you want to call this a point of contention as to it being an "original" or not is a purist matter, I suppose.  CSX2002 originally did not have an oil cooler either.

I do not see this car as an "original" restoration.  It is a good, comtemporary restoration, but it is not an "original" restoration.  For it to qualify as an original it would have been restored to its original form in which it left the shop/factory.  CSX2002 was not an FIA roadster and this car has been altered to FIA regulations.

Serial #'s 2259, 2260, 2301, 2323, and 2345 were the original FIA roadsters.  This restoration looks more like CSX2259, which was an FIA roadster and also happened to wear the number 16.  I found a picture (I wish I could post the pictures I have) of it in my collection and this restoration comes closer to matching CSX2259, than the original CSX2002.

Amen on the "not an original restoration".   While it looks good, I'd keep it truly original if it were mine.   

[RTHolmes]

"as it left the factory" is fine for restoring a production road car, allowing factory options and even contemporary mods (eg. Minilite wheels or Weber carbs on cars that commonly had them even if not offered as a factory option.)

if you apply "as it left the factory" to race cars you'd have alot of bare chassis on steel wheels being pushed around. "as it raced at the time" is a much better/realistic goal.

[Skuzzy]

In its original condition the car is a vintage racer.  Vintage race cars deserve to be restored to the condition they were originally used in.  It is what defines an "original restoration".

If one choses to update the car to comtemporary standards, it is not longer a restoration.  It is no longer an original.  This has been what separates originals from updates since the inception of the "classic" automobile.

Everything I have about CSX2002 shows this car has not been restored.  It has been updated and no longer carries the value a true restoration would.  However, as a contemporary update, it is nicely done and holds true to much of the history of the family Cobra.