P-47d11 in EARLY WAR

[Seadog36]

D-11s are supposed to represent C-1 through D-23 model Jugs. D-15s onward had pylons for ords and drops which would suggest the need for a D-25 capable 47 in mid. C model 47s were delivered to England in late '42 and first saw action in March '43 prior to FW 190A-5 models seeing service suggesting that the D-11 would be appropriate in early war. The point is, because AH takes liberties which are not completely historical in delineating Early Mid and Late because of resource constraints, as you pointed out yourself with 190A-5s~update the arenas and give the customer what they want, which is a more dynamic early and mid. Small potatoes compared to the development of the WWI arena.

[Karnak]

The Fw190A-5 is standing in for earlier Fw190s that saw combat in 1941 and 1942.  There is little sense in have the Merlin 61 Spitfire Mk IX, an emergency lash up to counter the Fw190, in Early War without the Fw190 itself.

Per your own text, the P-47 doesn't enter combat until March of 1943, after the period represented by Early War.  Unlike the Fw190 there is nothing for the P-47 to be subbed in for in the Early War period as there were no P-47s of any kind in combat at that time.

[WWhiskey]

What would you be subbing it for though?  The P-47 doesn't belong in Early War.

not really talking about early war,, at least I wasn't, just wanted another jug in mid!

[Seadog36]

You misquote me, it was "in service in England" with the 4th FG in late '42 and later the 56th FG, around the same time that the earliest model F6F, the -3 was delivered incidentally. First combat contact for the P-47 was in March '43. See the below statistics:

Model        Ser.Del       #Built
P-47B     Mar-42        170
P-47C     Sep-42          60
P-47D1-24  Feb-43      6,300
P-47D 25     Sep-43      6,290  also pre '44 which would put it in MW

[Karnak]

You misquote me, it was "in service in England" with the 4th FG in late '42 and later the 56th FG, around the same time that the earliest model F6F, the -3 was delivered incidentally. First combat contact for the P-47 was in March '43. See the below statistics:

Model        Ser.Del       #Built
P-47B     Mar-42        170
P-47C     Sep-42          60
P-47D1-24  Feb-43      6,300
P-47D 25     Sep-43      6,290  also pre '44 which would put it in MW

I believe those are production dates, not service dates.  We go by service dates.

[Krusty]

I looked it up once... If I recall squads started forming [perhaps a poor word, "getting ready?"] and such in December '42, but didn't get organized and operational and in europe until at least Feb/Mar '43.

[AWwrgwy]

I looked it up once... If I recall squads started forming [perhaps a poor word, "getting ready?"] and such in December '42, but didn't get organized and operational and in europe until at least Feb/Mar '43.

The 4th FG was flying Spitfires when it was initially formed from the British Eagle Squadrons. 

From: FourthFighterGroup.com

January 17, 1943 - The Fourth begins training on the P-47 Thunderbolt.

wrongway

[Karnak]

There you have it then, a proper P-47 fan should be flying Spitfire Mk Vs in Early War.

[Krusty]

The 4th FG was flying Spitfires when it was initially formed from the British Eagle Squadrons. 

January 17, 1943 - The Fourth begins training on the P-47 Thunderbolt.

Begins training, not necessarily "flew missions" hehehe

But that's a good point: fly a spitfire in EWA! Pretend you're still waiting for those jugs to come in! 

[WWhiskey]

By the end of 1942, most of the troubles with the P-47 had been worked out, the American war machine was coming on line, and P-47Cs were sent to England for combat operations. The 56th FG was sent overseas to join the Eighth Air Force, whose 4th and 78th Fighter Groups were equipped with the Thunderbolt as well.

The P-47's first combat mission was on 10 March 1943, when the 4th FG took their aircraft on a fighter sweep over France, which was a fiasco due to radio malfunctions. The P-47s were all refitted with British radios, and missions resumed on 8 April 1943. The P-47 first mixed it up with the Luftwaffe on 15 April, with Major Don Blakeslee of the 4th FG scoring the Thunderbolt's first kill, shooting down an FW-190. On 17 August 1943, the P-47 performed its first escort mission, when it guarded a B-17 force on the first leg of a raid on Schweinfurt, Germany.

December 28, 1943 - The 4th was finally up to its full strength of 75 Thunderbolts. The 56th FG was operating with 108 and the 78th had been at that strength since November 5th. On December 26th, the 56th had also received 21 of the new   paddle-bladed props which vastly improved the P-47's performance.

The "P-47D-16", "P-47D-20", "P-47D-22", and "P-47D-23" were similar to the P-47D-15, adding minor improvements in fuel system, engine subsystems, a jettisonable canopy, bulletproof windshield, and so on. The 3.71 meter (12 foot 2 inch) Curtiss propeller was replaced by new and bigger propellers, the Long Island plant moving to a Hamilton Standard propeller with a diameter of 4.01 meters (13 feet 1-7/8 inches), and the Evansville plant moving to a new Curtiss propeller with a diameter of 3.96 meters (13 feet). The new propeller further boosted the climb rate, and Luftwaffe pilots now found they couldn't get away from the P-47 by climbing.

The only reason I would like the change would be for the bigger prop!
It seems a shame to me that we have all those jugs yet the Paddle prop is not represented in the place it is needed the most and the "25" is not hardly used were it is available, it might not be too much trouble to refit the d-11 with the big prop tho and call it the d-15, a simple fix, instead of a substitution like the

  Fw190A-5 is in there too, which is a 1943 fighter, but I think it is subbing for earlier Fw190s.

but if you can sub a late model plane for the Germans,why not for the jug?

[Karnak]

What would you be subbing the P-47 for?  A P-36 Peashooter?    There isn't anything to sub it for.   You're own post states that no P-47 of any kind saw operations until 10 March, 1943 and even then it was almost a month before the second operation.  1943 means Mid-War.  Sorry, but no P-47 of any kind should be in Early-War.

[WWhiskey]

What would you be subbing the P-47 for?  A P-36 Peashooter?    There isn't anything to sub it for.   You're own post states that no P-47 of any kind saw operations until 10 March, 1943 and even then it was almost a month before the second operation.  1943 means Mid-War.  Sorry, but no P-47 of any kind should be in Early-War.

you keep thinking I am wanting it in early war! I want a paddle prop jug in mid war! that is all!!the d-25 could be used for this!
 I would have liked to see the d-11 in early war but I understand it does not meet the criteria as it is now.

[Karnak]

They received them on Dec. 26th, 5 days before we enter Late War.  Did they even fly a single operation during 1943 with them?

No, I don't think that is a reasonable request you are making.  If somebody was asking for the Fw190A-5 in early war when we had an Fw190A-2 already there, I'd react the same.

But we don't have an Fw190A-2 in Early-War while we do have a P-47D-11 in Mid-War.  Your request is not symmetrical.

[WWhiskey]

They received them on Dec. 26th, 5 days before we enter Late War.  Did they even fly a single operation during 1943 with them?

No, I don't think that is a reasonable request you are making.  If somebody was asking for the Fw190A-5 in early war when we had an Fw190A-2 already there, I'd react the same.

But we don't have an Fw190A-2 in Early-War while we do have a P-47D-11 in Mid-War.  Your request is not symmetrical.

but it does meet the criteria, if only by a few days.

[Karnak]

but it does meet the criteria, if only by a few days.

Only if it saw combat.  Arriving in crates doesn't meet the criteria.  When did the paddle bladded P-47s fly their first combat op?