B-25C with TAIL gun

[Karnak]

We don't need the B-25J.  Would it be nice to have?  Sure, but another American bomber isn't too high on the priority list unless it is a redone B-26B.

[Guppy35]

Guppy, you have mentioned before your opinions that the C was the most important model. But which C?

The vanilla early war C? The field-modified C that is essentially the pattern for the later J?

I would say there is definitely a need for the J, even if only to fill in for the later field-modded Cs with waist and tail guns added in. I know we have the strafers, and I'm happy for that, but I think there is as much a need for the B-25J as there is for the Bf109G-2.

If you look at the MTO C/D Models, the ETO RAF birds, the CBI birds, Aluetians and the early PTO birds, the glass nose version is the most representative without the tail gun.  In terms of the 5th AF birds the C Strafers are the most important.  Just looking through the 345th BG History, not all of their strafers had tail guns.  It was not standard practice

Also keep in mind the J models didn't show up in the PTO with the 5th until the late Fall of 1944.  They flew their C/D Strafers into 45.  The RAF did the same and when they got their first J models they were not popular with the crews as they were heavier and seemed more sluggish at the controls.

Photo below is a 2 Group RAF Mitchell II late Fall 44.  No tail gun to be seen.  The RAF even got some later model Mitchell IIs with the tail gun position with the rear dorsal turret.  There was no provision for guns in that tail turret however.


1943 B25D in the MTO.  Again no tail guns.  If you want I can post photos from 44 showing the same.  Again, it's not like it didn't happen, it just wasn't standard practice.



Again I'm not against the J but it would be down the priority list for me.  The C/D's did all the heavy lifting with the J showing up late.  I really believe HTC gave us the best  compromise  for both MA use and for Scenario use.  The J just wasn't the player the early birds were.

[stephen]

The topic of this thread is the B-25J, lets stay on-topic and not stray as to confuse...
(Though I seem to have done a good job of it myself)

[Guppy35]

What can you do in a B25J that you can't do in a B25H in the game already?  This is in the end about formations with tail guns correct?

[lyric1]

Well in that case then speaking of J's. I am not looking for the thread I posted in years ago about this plane.

I finally figured out what unit The Ink Squirts B25J was with & found a few more pictures of it. All I need is a tail number now so we can get it skinned when we get it. 

[lyric1]

What can you do in a B25J that you can't do in a B25H in the game already?  This is in the end about formations with tail guns correct?

Only one thing that I know of.

http://www.footnote.com/image/#29023813

http://www.footnote.com/image/#29024341

http://www.footnote.com/image/#29023819

[Beefcake]

What can you do in a B25J that you can't do in a B25H in the game already?  This is in the end about formations with tail guns correct?

You can level bomb and have a chance at surviving in the MA. The B25C as a level bomber is dead meat in the MA. Even with all my amazing skills of gunnery I cannot keep those planes alive vs most pilots that know what they're doing. The B25J is faster than the B25C and has FAR better defensive armament which would be better for MA use.

[Karnak]

You can level bomb and have a chance at surviving in the MA. The B25C as a level bomber is dead meat in the MA. Even with all my amazing skills of gunnery I cannot keep those planes alive vs most pilots that know what they're doing. The B25J is faster than the B25C and has FAR better defensive armament which would be better for MA use.

You can do that in a B-26B as well.  B-26B does need to be updated though.

[Beefcake]

You can do that in a B-26B as well.  B-26B does need to be updated though.

Would agree, I would love to see the B25J but I would rather have the B26 updated.

[lyric1]

You can level bomb and have a chance at surviving in the MA. The B25C as a level bomber is dead meat in the MA. Even with all my amazing skills of gunnery I cannot keep those planes alive vs most pilots that know what they're doing. The B25J is faster than the B25C and has FAR better defensive armament which would be better for MA use.

Most savvy attackers climb up on your low 6 not much you can do. This works for me though wait until they are behind & below you & lock the bombers in to a shallow climb & now your top guns are looking right at him.

[ACE]

+1 to the 25J. Especially if we get an option for the 12-gun strafer package.

I have to agree there. 

[Greziz]

I hate seeing the just fly the b26 mentions -.- I am personally a fan of the b25 I would enjoy to have the fully supped up b25j telling us that the b26 fills the roll is like saying just drive a volvo or subaru when you want to drive a toyota or something to that degree. I think atleast for me and some others we would like to fly the iconic plane we idolize just like some people will always be p51 pilots because they love the p51! etc just like I like the 39 I know other planes are better in almost every way than it but I dont care I want to fly the plane I love. that being said I would bring to bear angels singing a chorus of pwnage if the king cobra was put in the game ^.^

[Karnak]

I hate seeing the just fly the b26 mentions -.- I am personally a fan of the b25 I would enjoy to have the fully supped up b25j telling us that the b26 fills the roll is like saying just drive a volvo or subaru when you want to drive a toyota or something to that degree. I think atleast for me and some others we would like to fly the iconic plane we idolize just like some people will always be p51 pilots because they love the p51! etc just like I like the 39 I know other planes are better in almost every way than it but I dont care I want to fly the plane I love. that being said I would bring to bear angels singing a chorus of pwnage if the king cobra was put in the game ^.^

Developer resources are limited.  If you were a Halifax fan I'd be telling you to just fly the Lancaster as they are very similar, just as the B-25J and B-26B are very similar.

If HTC decides to add the B-25J I am not going to object, but I do think other things would add more to the game rather than a bomber that fills no hole in the planeset.

[Guppy35]

I hate seeing the just fly the b26 mentions -.- I am personally a fan of the b25 I would enjoy to have the fully supped up b25j telling us that the b26 fills the roll is like saying just drive a volvo or subaru when you want to drive a toyota or something to that degree. I think atleast for me and some others we would like to fly the iconic plane we idolize just like some people will always be p51 pilots because they love the p51! etc just like I like the 39 I know other planes are better in almost every way than it but I dont care I want to fly the plane I love. that being said I would bring to bear angels singing a chorus of pwnage if the king cobra was put in the game ^.^

But you can fly the B25.  Three different versions.  The "Iconic version" of the B25 would be the glass nose, no gun in the tail B25B of the Doolittle Raid.  The B25J was late in the game.  That it shows up at airshows and in warbird pictures has more to do with them not being used up in combat then anything else.

[Baumer]

That it shows up at airshows and in warbird pictures has more to do with them not being used up in combat then anything else.

I know that many, if not most B-25's in the PTO were destroyed after the war. It was cheaper to junk them rather then bring them all back to the States.

In a discussion I had with Pyro at last years CON he made it clear that HTC is focused on keeping the game download as small as possible. After talking about the new Ord system it was clear that it's possible that we will see more aircraft variants selectable in the hanger. As an example, (if I understood it correctly) the B-25J could actually be selected in the hanger as an alternative nose on the B-25H. This would help HTC keep the game download smaller, and give them more flexibility (I believe a similar discussion was brought up about the -1C and -1D Corsair).

I really would like to see the B-25C/D get the option for the ventral turret. It was used in combat by both the US and RAF, and contrary to the US experience, there are reports that state the RAF actually liked the ventral gun. The RAF overcame many of the issues that plagued the US buy adapting to how they used it. In addition the RAF flew them from better prepared airfields witch help overcome the dirty optics issue.

I'd also like to see the late war B-25C/D options added like;

• Gun packs on the glass nose
• 8 5" Rockets
• external wing hardpoints for 4 250lbs bombs on each wing
• single .50 cal tail gun (either the depot design or factory design [see below])

Here's a photo of a USMC PBJ-1D with the options I mentioned above. This is shot of VMB-611 being transported to their area of operation.


Here is a photo of the single tail .50cal factory modification. The depot modification had the single 50 cal down in the fuselage which limited its travel considerably. This is a photo of VMB-433 heading out on a combat mission.