Author Topic: How would the Cromwel do in the MA  (Read 1461 times)

Offline danny76

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
Re: How would the Cromwel do in the MA
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 06:29:50 AM »
Really? Established where?

Wikipedia thinks:

The M1 Abrams is powered by a 1,500 shaft horsepower (1,100 kW) Honeywell AGT 1500 (originally made by Lycoming) gas turbine, and a six speed (four forward, two reverse) Allison X-1100-3B Hydro-Kinetic automatic transmission, giving it a governed top speed of 45 mph (72 km/h) on paved roads, and 30 mph (48 km/h) cross-country. With the engine governor removed, speeds of around 60 mph (97 km/h) are possible on an improved surface; however, damage to the drive train (especially to the tracks) and an increased risk of injuries to the crew can occur at speeds above 45 mph (72 km/h). The tank for all intents and purposes was built around this engine.[26] The tank can be fueled with diesel fuel, kerosene, any grade of motor gasoline, JP-4 jet fuel, or JP-8 jet fuel; the US Army uses JP-8 jet fuel in order to simplify logistics. The Royal Australian Armoured Corps' M1A1 AIM SA uses diesel fuel; it is cheaper and makes practical sense for Australian military logistics.

The world speed record for a tank is actually not held by a tank but by a relatively lightweight CVRT, under controlled conditions on superior surfaces, and just scrapes over 60mph

I wasn't making this stuff up :aok
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 06:33:18 AM by danny76 »
"You kill 'em all, I'll eat the BATCO!"
The GFC

"Not within a thousand years will man ever fly" - Wilbur Wright

Offline PJ_Godzilla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
Re: How would the Cromwel do in the MA
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2010, 06:44:51 AM »
Okay, Danny, you've done it. I've checked you at the army site and they do, in fact, echo the Wiki citation. It is established that the Abrams can do 60 - but not with impunity. That qualification is critical to the argument.

I think that, at this point, we could give Gyrene the benfit of the doubt since he states that the M1 can do "40-50 across the desert". His assertion about "45-55mph off road", however, looks to be either pure fantasy or some Marines committing a bit of a no-no.

BTW, I'm surprised they didn't give the Challenger better speed.
I expect lousy speeds from the M60 since everyone knows that that thing is a piece of crap - and has been since the day it was first designed. Nowadays, I think they've got a reactive overlay. It makes it look like the kluge job it is.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline danny76

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
Re: How would the Cromwel do in the MA
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2010, 06:53:11 AM »
I've never had any close hand experience with the Abrams, only UK av's, I was merely going off British Army warnings and doctrine about recommended vehicle speeds. I did one see a pic at Bovington of a Chieftan Commanders hatch that had actually received significant damage from a flailing high speed track, then again despite trying i cannot find it, and having crewed Chieftans in training I think the possibility of one getting to high speed without breaking down within 4 yards of the tank park, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary I would have to concede this may be spurious.
 :salute PJ Godzilla.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 06:58:32 AM by danny76 »
"You kill 'em all, I'll eat the BATCO!"
The GFC

"Not within a thousand years will man ever fly" - Wilbur Wright

Offline PJ_Godzilla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
Re: How would the Cromwel do in the MA
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2010, 07:01:14 AM »
As for the Cromwell, I'll also cite Wiki:

The Cromwell was the fastest British tank to serve in the Second World War[citation needed], with a top (ungoverned) speed of 40 mph (64 km/h). However this speed proved too much for even the Christie suspension and the engine was governed to give a top speed of 32 mph (51 km/h), which was still fast for its time. Thanks to its Christie parentage the Cromwell was very agile on the battlefield. The dual purpose 75 mm main gun fired the same ammunition as the US 75 mm gun and therefore it had around the same HE and armour-piercing capabilities as the 75 mm equipped Sherman tank. The armour on the Cromwell ranged from 8 mm up to 76 mm thick overall. However, on all-welded vehicles built by BRCW Co. Ltd, the weight saved by the welding allowed for the fitting of appliqué armour plates on the nose, vertical drivers' plate and turret front, increasing the maximum thickness to 102 mm. In period photos, these vehicles are identified by their War Department numbers carrying the suffix W, i.e. T121710W. This armour compared well with that of the Sherman although the Cromwell did not share the Sherman’s sloped glacis plate. The Cromwell crews in North-West Europe succeeded in outflanking the heavier and more sluggish German tanks with superior speed, manoeuvrability and reliability. However, the Cromwell was still not a match for the best German armour and British tank design would go through another stage, the Comet tank, before going ahead in the tank development race with the Centurion tank.


I still think of it as a bit of a Sherman-level pos on an individual basis. Comet and Pershing are genuine late-war monsters, competitive 1:1 with the Panther. This, though, is a pos, plain and simple. I also read that most of the cruiser-type tanks suffered reliability issues.

Anyway, I'd say add it. It's a POS and would make a nice target. We probably need the Panter as well. And what about the total dearth of indirect-fire weapons (imagine shelling a base from the comfort of an SP155mm gun)? That should rile up the hornet's nest and motivate larger numbers of attack craft in the air at any given time. What about the absence of assault guns like the StuGs and SUs? I magine using an SU152 on ANYTHING. "Clearly, even low velocity weapons of large caliber can still do considerable damage to tanks".

I remember that as the caption beneath the photo of a PzIV that had been literally spread across the snow by a direct hit from an SU-152. The turret was upside down and displaced from the hull by more that the length of the hull - itself looking oddly disassembled.

More is better. HTC can do little wrong by adding just about anything.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline danny76

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
Re: How would the Cromwel do in the MA
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2010, 07:09:09 AM »
+1 on the arty.

Would add a significant scope to AH both in the assault and defensive role :pray
"You kill 'em all, I'll eat the BATCO!"
The GFC

"Not within a thousand years will man ever fly" - Wilbur Wright

Offline 321BAR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6140
Re: How would the Cromwel do in the MA
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2010, 10:22:37 PM »
BACK ON SUBJECT...ish...
312BAR is just looking at the maximum road speed...cross country speed was dependent on the terrain, and rarely exceeded 45 mph even in vehicles that could go that fast, nobody wanted to break down and take a chance on getting caught by the enemy...unless they were being fired on, then the basic rule was, get it in gear and move.
here it comes gyrene...wait for it.......waaaiiitttt..... "its a game" and btw 45mph is still faster than any tracked vehicle in here...although the M3 goes max at what in game? 60mph? :headscratch: and by the way, any tank in WWII needed to recalibrate if hitting bumps at speed, they had no electronic gunsights to auto level like the M1 and such MBTs of the modern era do... guess what? they dont in the game so why would the M-18 need it anyways? 3rd... Cromwell +11111 and an eleven too
I am in need of a new epic quote
Happy Jack's Go Buggy

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
Re: How would the Cromwel do in the MA
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2010, 10:14:13 AM »
There was some Shermans with gyro stabilized guns.

Offline PJ_Godzilla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
Re: How would the Cromwel do in the MA
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2010, 01:18:50 PM »
Yeah, yeah, nobody cares about that crap.

We've moved on. I'm starting a new thread about artillery and how it's so essential.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.