Author Topic: Damage model 2.0?  (Read 3464 times)

Offline HatTrick

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2010, 12:33:18 PM »


Thats not saying much, WW2OL and even IL2 have better damage models than AH...well at least before the new damage model with WW1

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Yeah right.  WW2OL's damage model is crap. 

Offline Flipperk

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2010, 12:34:56 PM »
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Yeah right.  WW2OL's damage model is crap.  


There is a difference between flight model and damage model. WW2OL Damage model is better, flight model is not.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 12:38:19 PM by Flipperk »
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Offline HatTrick

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2010, 12:37:24 PM »
I don't know Ah yes wait i do now. Ace's for a multiplayer on line Combat sim Takes up less room on the hard drive than the like's of iL2 and microsoft combat flight sim. And Ace's s way better than them :)

Dude, what kind of archaic machine are you running that you're worried about hard drive space?  I have a game on my HD that takes up 27 gigs of space.  I'm wondering if you even have a 27 gig hard drive with the nonsense you're posting.

Offline HatTrick

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2010, 12:48:28 PM »

There is a difference between flight model and damage model. WW2OL Damage model is better, flight model is not.

Oh, I'm well aware that there is a difference and I still say it's crap.  I play both games.  I would reckon that 90% of the kills in WW2OL are pilot kills.  In other words, people keep flying around and soaking up tons of ammo until you finally manage to put the lights out on their pilot.  Seeing a wing or elevator broken off of a plane is only slightly less rare than seeing a total eclipse.  It's a joke and the joke isn't funny.

Offline Flipperk

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2010, 12:56:34 PM »
Oh, I'm well aware that there is a difference and I still say it's crap.  I play both games.  I would reckon that 90% of the kills in WW2OL are pilot kills.  In other words, people keep flying around and soaking up tons of ammo until you finally manage to put the lights out on their pilot.  Seeing a wing or elevator broken off of a plane is only slightly less rare than seeing a total eclipse.  It's a joke and the joke isn't funny.


The 90% is true, yes most of the kills are pilot kills, which is pretty consistent with RL. But you cannot fly around soaking up ammo like you can here in AH. I have literally fallen through the sky in WW2OL purely because my plane has taken so much damage that the lift capabilities of the control surfaces could not keep the plane in the air.

Please watch this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/user/1epic1#p/a/u/0/-8Y4l-uEMCY

The video shows many examples of parts falling off of aircraft as well as planes being killed due to fires and being damaged to the point that the control surfaces can not provide lift to the aircraft.


If you take damage here in AH your planes' flight characteristics is not effected until a control surface falls off the aircraft, this is not the case in WW2OL or IL2 which makes these two games' damage model better than AH. Although they do lack the flight model of AH
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 01:02:17 PM by Flipperk »
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Offline HatTrick

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2010, 01:11:40 PM »

The 90% is true, yes most of the kills are pilot kills, which is pretty consistent with RL. But you cannot fly around soaking up ammo like you can here in AH. I have literally fallen through the sky in WW2OL purely because my plane has taken so much damage that the lift capabilities of the control surfaces could not keep the plane in the air.

Please watch this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/user/1epic1#p/a/u/0/-8Y4l-uEMCY

The video shows many examples of parts falling off of aircraft as well as planes being killed due to fires and being damaged to the point that the control surfaces can not provide lift to the aircraft.

I told ya, I play both games.  I know how the game works.  I could easily make a video showing planes soaking up thousands of rounds, trailing smoke from 3 different places and continuing to dogfight like nobody's business.  It's crap.  I can remember one particularly laughable example that happened to me last campaign.  I spotted a Hawk below me and dove down to him in my 190.  I dove underneath him so he couldn't see me and when I got into range I pulled up and gave him a blast right underneath the cockpit.  I pulled above his plane and put so many cannon hits on his wing that I could barely see the plane through all the black smoke from all the explosions.  At that point, he realized something was amiss and started to try to evade and went into a spin.  I thought there was no way he would recover it (we weren't very high) with all that damage and I just went into a shallow climbing turn to keep an eye on him.  Lo and behold, he did recover it and then I watched him engage and shoot down another guy.

That crap happens...all...the...time.  Sure, you can get a quick kill every now and then but that's the exception, not the rule.  That's why the 190F-1 was so reviled.  You would end up blowing all your cannon ammo on one encounter that you probably wouldn't even kill and then you were left with just 2x7.9mm to defend yourself which is totally inadequate.

Offline Flipperk

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2010, 01:15:47 PM »
I told ya, I play both games.  I know how the game works.  I could easily make a video showing planes soaking up thousands of rounds, trailing smoke from 3 different places and continuing to dogfight like nobody's business.  It's crap.  I can remember one particularly laughable example that happened to me last campaign.  I spotted a Hawk below me and dove down to him in my 190.  I dove underneath him so he couldn't see me and when I got into range I pulled up and gave him a blast right underneath the cockpit.  I pulled above his plane and put so many cannon hits on his wing that I could barely see the plane through all the black smoke from all the explosions.  At that point, he realized something was amiss and started to try to evade and went into a spin.  I thought there was no way he would recover it (we weren't very high) with all that damage and I just went into a shallow climbing turn to keep an eye on him.  Lo and behold, he did recover it and then I watched him engage and shoot down another guy.

That crap happens...all...the...time.  Sure, you can get a quick kill every now and then but that's the exception, not the rule.  That's why the 190F-1 was so reviled.  You would end up blowing all your cannon ammo on one encounter that you probably wouldn't even kill and then you were left with just 2x7.9mm to defend yourself which is totally inadequate.

Other way around, your example is the exception to the rule. WW2OL and IL2's damage models are setup to work as I depicted earlier. Whether or not it happens 100% of the time is irrelevant, even in AH weird anomalies happen from time to time. An error in coding does not change the fact that the principle of the basic damage model is setup in a more realistic damage model than what AH has right now.

Regardless you can find prime examples in ALL flight games where physics seems to be redefined by flaws in coding.

AH is setup to where the flight characteristics of the aircraft are NOT effected until the control surface reaches 100% structural integrity damage and the flight surface falls off of the aircraft.

WW2OL and IL2 are setup in the same way except that the flight characteristics ARE effected even if the flight control surface has been shot off. IF you take damage to the wing, even though the wing has not fallen off, the flight characteristics of the aircraft have changed due to the damage.

The basic setups is what you need to look at, not the exceptions.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 01:35:40 PM by Flipperk »
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2010, 06:54:21 PM »
You two need to smell Grizz's feet....geez...


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Offline Rino

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2010, 07:00:57 PM »

The 90% is true, yes most of the kills are pilot kills, which is pretty consistent with RL. But you cannot fly around soaking up ammo like you can here in AH. I have literally fallen through the sky in WW2OL purely because my plane has taken so much damage that the lift capabilities of the control surfaces could not keep the plane in the air.

Please watch this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/user/1epic1#p/a/u/0/-8Y4l-uEMCY

The video shows many examples of parts falling off of aircraft as well as planes being killed due to fires and being damaged to the point that the control surfaces can not provide lift to the aircraft.


If you take damage here in AH your planes' flight characteristics is not effected until a control surface falls off the aircraft, this is not the case in WW2OL or IL2 which makes these two games' damage model better than AH. Although they do lack the flight model of AH

     Holy Credibility Gap Batman!  You can't really believe 90% of kills were due to pilot death, do you? :huh
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Offline Kweassa

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2010, 05:54:15 AM »
Who says IL-2 uses hit boxes? You can actually track every hit you've made exactly on which spot by using one of the game options in IL-2.

The problem with IL-2 DM is that the more sophisticated the DM becomes, the discrepancy between real life pilot reaction and us game pilot reactio begin to really show. For instance, many people still whine how .50s are undermodelled in IL-2, except from the receiving end the .50 does about as much damage as can be expected - instant flight surface/structural failures are very rare, but internal damage and flight destabilization being very common, and the no.1 killing factor when receiving .50 attacks tend to be black puffy engines and fires.

The thing is, real life pilots would not think twice about bugging out when they decide their rides are in no condition to fight any longer. They'd attempt to escape, and if even that seems unlikely, they'd just simply jump out. However, game pilots usually fight to the end until they drop dead. You could mess up a lot of internal systems on the plane, make it trail smoke, snag a control cable or two, shred a wing which starts drooping due to lack of lift, bust the oil pan to grease the entire windshield, hit the pilot so his vision goes all bloody red.... and yet, still the game pilot squirms and wobbles around trying to fight back.

It's because of this that its tougher to get kills with .50s in IL-2. The damage model's more realistic and sophisticated, but the pilots aren't. You have to keep stuffing in the .50s until the target is ablaze or loses a wing or a tail - and with the better DM, that's a tough objective to achieve without cannons.




Offline BulletVI

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Re: Damage model 2.0?
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2010, 01:11:08 PM »

What i would like to see for the damage model is that when you get hit in and around an elevator say instead of loosing the whole elevator you loose bit's of it. But as well if the enemy fire also hits the control surface cable's then you hear a twang and oh dear your left elevator although still there but wont work Help you now cant bank left or right as the cable's have now been cut :(

This is also what brought most plane in WW2 down the fact that enemy fire had cut control cable's thus making the plane un-flyable.
That's what i would like see in future damage model upgrade's :)

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