Aircraft in aces high II

[PJ_Godzilla]

Basics physics dictates that a 1kg object needs 3 times its weight to counteract gravity. now thats a basic rule that all aircraft designers have lived by.

Three times it's weight of what? If it had three times its weight in gold, it could probably buy a ride on a better-climbing aircraft. That'd work.

As for this rule, I don't remember it from my aircraft design classes at Michigan or Stanford but that was a long time ago, admittedly.

However, Bullet, here's the real problem with HTC: it spends all its people's time on things like bug fixes and dry subjects that guys who wear straight-legged gray suit and thin ties care about. None o' that old-timey stuff is going to get you some clunge at the local watering hole and that why these people are so cranky. If they weren't so cranky, they'd be spending more time on things that are cool.

So, are you with me on this? I ask because I'm about to reveal my triple-nought secret for how you make Aces High into the kind of Red Hot Dyma-no that'll really get people's motors humming.

The answer: we need some updates that are REALLY COOL.

The best idea so far: we need a cockpit desktop assistant that pops up on-screen when it senses you're having some issues in flight. It'll look just like the Fonz from Happy Days, complete with the comb and leather jacket. Frequently, and just sort of out of the blue, you know, just to keep the spontaneity levels up there, it'll loudly give you a thumbs up and go, "aaaaaaaay". If you're lucky, it'll climb aboard a vintage Triumph motrocycle and jump a shark.

Now all of that may not seem to be too related to WWII air combat... but that kind of defeatist talk ignores the thing they both have in common: the Fonz and WWII dogfighting - what could be cooler than that?

'member: ever who opposes the evil klowns is ma' emmaknee! Tha evil klowns will nevah dah!

[Nemisis]

dtango, your mixing efficiency with thrust.

Eff = (Thrust * Speed) / Power

Nemisis statement of more rpm = more thrust is almost always correct unless a prop has a very large blade angle of 30 degrees or more and traveling at very slow speeds.

HiTech

The discussion (between dtango and I anyway) had some what shifted to prop efficency (kind of).

Rhino, even so, there is a limit to what props can do. You will eventually end up with something resembling the blade assemblies (props?) from a turbofan minus the casing (I'm guessing it won't turn out too well, else they would have done it), or with planes (fighters) 15-20ft off the ground.

[Fatboy26]

I have browsed, scanned actually, (didn't pay attention at all) all of the aeronautical engineering quandaries.  I have been enlightened about subjects and found answers to questions I have yet to ponder.  Yet I am still confused.  I think the underlying question, which if answered could change the shape of the world, is:

What is the airspeed velocity of an un-laden African Swallow?

And when will two said swallows carrying a coconut by the husk be modeled into the game.

[1701E]

I have browsed, scanned actually, (didn't pay attention at all) all of the aeronautical engineering quandaries.  I have been enlightened about subjects and found answers to questions I have yet to ponder.  Yet I am still confused.  I think the underlying question, which if answered could change the shape of the world, is:

What is the airspeed velocity of an un-laden African Swallow?

And when will two said swallows carrying a coconut by the husk be modeled into the game.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?


sorry...I won't hijack this thread any further but I couldn't pass this up.

[LLogann]

We have aircraft?   

[Ghosth]

I don't believe that you can prove that african swallows ever entered combat in WWII, thereby eliminating this particular wish.

As to their speed either laden or unladen, well, thats one for the grognards to argue over.

[Masherbrum]

But the questions begs itself:   "It's a simple question of weight ratios.  How does a 5 ounce bird carry a one pound coconut?"  

[morfiend]

But the questions begs itself:   "It's a simple question of weight ratios.  How does a 5 ounce bird carry a one pound coconut?"  

 Carefully!!!       

[Rino]

     I really need to watch the Holy Grail again <sigh> 

[Rino]

The discussion (between dtango and I anyway) had some what shifted to prop efficency (kind of).

Rhino, even so, there is a limit to what props can do. You will eventually end up with something resembling the blade assemblies (props?) from a turbofan minus the casing (I'm guessing it won't turn out too well, else they would have done it), or with planes (fighters) 15-20ft off the ground.

     The problem, I think with the exposed turbofan had more to do with noise < a big bugaboo in civil aviation now>
than efficiency.  There is a reason most everyone has gone to high bypass turbofans from the early screamers...well
two actually.  First is fuel efficiency and secondly noise reduction.  

     I will say the loudest general aviation bird I ever heard inflight was the Piaggio Avanti turboprop.



     You could hear this thing for miles, even upwind.  Since I started out listening to Lear 23s and Vickers
Viscounts, the Avanti is a real shocker these days.    Ok, actually I spent some time listening to Phantoms
first, but they were 60s era military, so they don't count  

[Nemisis]

In combat, it doesn't really matter if your enemy hears you coming when you're pulling 368 at sea level, IMO. He's just as dead if a 1k bomb lands in his foxhole as he is if it lands at his feet.

[BulletVI]

ah but as i have seen in the game when you climb to altitude the manifold pressure doesn't drop it remains constant. For example once the Spitfire Mk 16 reatchs an altitude of 18,000 feet its manifold pressure drops so low that the pilot has to boost the engine power by using Wep power to increase performance at and above this altitude. The same go's for the P51 P38 and All other aircraft designed to fly above 18,000 feet. And Also the design of these aircraft are limited to better roll and dive and climb rates above these altitudes. as any no brainer can pick up a book and read the performance spec's on the aircraft. So in conclusion the Spitfire mk16  shouldn't roll and turn as-well as the Spitfire mk 8-9 at low altitude.

and i have even heard from some players who have played the game for years since day 1 say the same , if not something similar along the same lines.
   
oh and by the way i didnt sleep through English i never learned it I learned Scottish        

Now its understandable that HiTech Cant get everything right as we all know there is no computer system out there yet that can provide the power needed to make any flight sim 100% realistic.
But is it possible to look into reprogramming some planes that need to be sorted through lack of performance that they should have.

Oh an please can they create the Spitfire Mk 8 CV Its Cliped wing like the mk16 but was used by the Australians , New Zealanders And Some Army Air Corps pilots against the Japanese. As It was said that the mk 8 CV could almost stay in turn with the Zero longer than any other pacific theatre aircraft. PLEASE

BulletVI

[BulletVI]

Boxboy in physics terms you have a few concepts.

Force I assume you know, this is measured in pounds or newtons. Thrust is a force.

Work is = Force * Distance.

Power = Work / Time.

Speed =   Distance / Time.

Solving these equations we also get

Power = force * speed.


So in airplane terms lets ignore drag for a sec.

Once an airplane is accelerated to flying speed it requires no force to continue flying but the plane is still generating lift and hence requires no power to continue flying level but is still generating lift. Now picture a helicopter with no drag, once the rotors are accelerated they would continue to provide thrust/lift with out any power.

Now with drag and flying level all power is simply used in overcoming drag. Power required is force (i.e. drag) * speed.


But the key is the power definition. of Force * speed.

So now to calculate power for climb speed we simply need the weight of object and speed of climb to calculate power required. I.E. Power = Weight * speed.
Horse powers definition is Lifting 550 pounds 1 foot in 1 sec.
But if we put in a gear box or lever we could be lifting 1100 lbs 1 foot in 2 secs with the exact same power.

So angle of climb is all about a propeller and plane design. A helicopter climbing straight up requires no more extra power then an airplane with the same weight  if they climb at the same rate.

So to summarize why i pointed the thrust / power out. Not to many engineers would substitute the word power for force when describing what is required for angle of climb.

HiTech
 


AH But HiTech i agree with your post there but in reading it i think there may be 1 factor that has been left out in the game. and that's drag. Now we all know that any object that moves through air creates drag cripe's the human body creates drag as you walk , move or run.
So as-well as drag There's friction and heat built-up from friction which also affects performance.
For example an aircraft flying at 200mph with a surface area of approximate 45" squared can produce drag of up-to 1/3 of its total surface area.
Now at low altitude the air is thicker and at high altitude the air is thinner so at high altitude the drag an aircraft produces is lower due to the thinness of the air. but at low altitude its thicker thus the aircraft produce's more drag. again back to the mk16 spitfire its wings where clipped to provided a more stable roll rate at high altitude thus at lower altitudes it was less stable due to the drag coefficient of the clipped wings.

So in the programming of certain aircraft have you left the drag factor out or not got it quite right by forgetting that at low altitudes an air craft produces more drag  than at higher altitudes.????

Now that's just a thought.

BulletVI

[hitech]

Bullet wrote:

AH But HiTech i agree with your post there but in reading it i think there may be 1 factor that has been left out in the game.

I'll get right on that and add drag to the sim. How could I have forgotten such a basic concept.

As for your manifold press posting.

Do some real testing, you will find out the manifold pressure starts to drop at their critical alts on all planes .

HiTech

[Bronk]

Bullet wrote:
I'll get right on that and add drag to the sim. How could I have forgotten such a basic concept.


HiTech

LOL not quite enough sarcasm on that one.