No Icon Tactics and Tips

[Dawger]

It seems there are some new folks in the no icon AvA so I thought I would start a thread regarding how no icons presents different challenges and opportunities.

Please feel free to comment or add.

Hardware and Settings:

 High resolution and maxed out graphics settings is not always better. Go offline or in an arena like the DA and play with your video settings to discover what settings allow you to "spot the dot" with the greatest ease. Each hardware setup will differ but the things that have worked for my in the past are as follows.

1. Set a resolution that is appropriate for your monitor size. Don't run the highest resolution you can just to do it. I use a 19 inch monitor and find 1024 X 768 in Aces High the best for no icons. Find one that works for you.

2. Experiment with anti-aliasing. Anti-aliasing smooths the edges by filling in pixels with intermediate colors. On a computer displaying a dark, small object AA sometimes tends to wash it out against the background. Find the AA setting that works best.

Flying to the Fight:

This is where a lot of folks get into trouble. We all get used to giant neon billboards and don't worry a lot about getting jumped. With no icons that all changes. You need to be aware of how to minimize your risk. Here are the techniques I use.

1. Head on a swivel. You have to look around constantly. If you are going to rely on radar to help you find the bandits, be sure you display the radar rings on your map so you know when you are in friendly radar coverage and when you are not.

2. Belly check. The biggest blind spot is under your belly. Roll upside down and check it often.

3. Fly with a wing man whenever possible. Solid formation actually plays a role in no icons. You want your friends positioned so that you can easily tell who and where they are and in a manner that the blind spot at six o'clock is covered visually. My squadron has flown a lot of no icon and sloppy formation work always leads to trouble especially if it is so sloppy some of the friends drift outside of friendly icon range. When your formation gets this big you can't be sure of the identity of the dots you see and it plays havoc with tactics.

4. Don't fly straight to the fight. We are all conditioned to take the shortest path between the two closest fields to get to the fight. If you do this you are creating a blind spot under the nose exactly where most of the bandits are likely to come from. I like to fly from a rear field and always at a heading that is at least 30 degrees to one side of the main threat axis. This puts the likely bandits on one side of the airplane and solves that under the nose blind spot.

5. Don't fly below maximum zoom altitude. What do i mean by that? A favorite no icon tactic by camouflaged airplanes is to fly low, hiding in the ground clutter and zoom into the belly of an unsuspecting victim. It works very well, especially when the victim is flying straight to the fight and has created that blind spot under the nose. You counter this threat by climbing to an altitude higher than the zoom capability of the enemy before you enter the threat area. Minimum 5000 feet above the ground and that isn't quite enough, really.

In the fight:

1. Learn what the airplanes look like without icons. Aircraft silhouette training is vital and you should work on it. Also the game displays little clues as to aircraft type at long range. P38's and ponies have a glint. Japanese red meatballs show up at long range on occasion. Learn the skins of the enemy. A Zero looks exactly like a Ki84 until you get up close. A 109 looks exactly like  P51 at twice the distance (A 109 at 500 yards looks like a P51 at 1000 yards.....IF you don't believe me I'll send you some silhouettes you can use to prove it to yourself)

2. Learn to shoot without tracers. This is handy in all arenas but especially no icons. You lose the element of surprise with tracers and they can be seen a long way off in game. More than once I have seen tracers long before I saw the dots or friendly icon.

3. Learn to hide in the fight. It is old habit with me but if you are constantly thinking about giving the bandit problems spotting you you will have more success no icons. Stay low six in lag pursuit until you are really close and ready to fire. Use all three dimensions. Don't fight pure vertical or pure horizontal. It makes the tracking job of your opponent harder. Change direction when you know the bandit probably cant see you. There are split second moments in all fights where the combatants cant see each other and are predicting where the other guy will be. Use those moments to change direction.

4. Egress from a fight is possible but you have to know how. Recognize the need early. You can't decide you need to bug out when the bandit is squarely saddled on your six. As soon as you know the fight isn't going your way decide to egress and then do it. Some basic requirements for egress are : Going in a suitable direction (towards friends or a friendly base, going away from the enemy) and The bandit going the other way. The best time to egress is when the bandit is traveling 180 degrees from your planned egress route. This will provide you with the most initial separation. If you can get him going opposite the direction you want and get him to lose sight for a split second while you change direction slightly you can usually make a clean egress.

5. Multi-bandit fights are confusing. It is very easy to lose track of a particular foe. Remember this: Nose high in a multi-bandit environment is a deadly gamble. Nose high below minimum vertical maneuver speed is usually fatal.

Learn to shoot no icons:

Go offline and learn what different aircraft types look like at different ranges in the gunsight. Objects are farther away than they appear. Review your no icon films and see if your perception of distance is matching reality. Drive up close and shoot. If you are effective at hiding in the bandit's blind spots don't fire until his wings touch both sides of the circle. No reason to panic him. Just kill him with one clean burst from 200 yards or less.

I know I didn't cover everything and I would love to here other folks ideas on the subject.

[Cheese]

Great points Dawger - especially about the aircraft ID. 

I made the mistake of assuming a particular JP bogey was a Zeke.  I managed a few hits into it - enough to hit his oil cooler, and thought he was pretty well done.  Well, I thought I could zoom out but he kept up with me and we ended in a rolling scissors - it was a NiK1 George, not a Zeke, and he proceeded to fly up my six blow the wing off my Spit.  "You have been killed by TheBug"...

One other suggestion I might make is to ensure you have a CLEAN monitor.  I have a several dust motes, soda fuzz drops etc on mine that turn into planes every once in a while...LOL

Cheese

[Shifty]

Good points. The learning to shoot no icons is a great tip. I've been doing that offline to help with my gunnery.

[gyrene81]

One other suggestion I might make is to ensure you have a CLEAN monitor.  I have a several dust motes, soda fuzz drops etc on mine that turn into planes every once in a while...LOL

Cheese

LMAO, can't keep count of the times I've started banking to "check out the dot" only to realize that it's a spot on my monitor...<grumble> grab monitor wipes <rub><rub><rub>... 


Dawger, you hit ever nail on the head that I've had to learn. 

[Dawger]

A clean monitor is so fundamentally important I forgot about it........

The habit of regularly cleaning the monitor is quickly developed when one flies no icons.

[gldnbb]

And on the subject of  spotting the dot.... I find quite a few times, the enemy will capitalize on this issue by using advantage to fly much lower on the terrain to hide themselves while keeping their 'e',   coming up to kill the enemy.  They capitalize on the enemy's weakness of technology configuration.   Gaming a game imo,  and I've used the tactic more successfully for  offense and defense since others use it.  Guess it can't be helped.

I like the no-icons,  ultra realistic so that we don't rely on 'technology ala icons' to find a bandit.  Just our eyes and guts, in real life.   But, real life lets you see other aircraft much more easily than a 2D simulator.    I think this is why so many people have issues.

I'll keep adapting to no-icons and hope your recommendations help.

[jimson]

I'll keep adapting to no-icons and hope Jimson's recommendations help.

Can't take credit for that. Dawger's the OP here.

[gldnbb]

Can't take credit for that. Dawger's the OP here.

CC updated...

[Oldman731]

And on the subject of  spotting the dot.... I find quite a few times, the enemy will capitalize on this issue by using advantage to fly much lower on the terrain to hide themselves while keeping their 'e',   coming up to kill the enemy.  They capitalize on the enemy's weakness of technology configuration.   Gaming a game imo,  and I've used the tactic more successfully for  offense and defense since others use it.  Guess it can't be helped.

This is just an experience thing. Fact is that you're usually going to be at an energy disadvantage if you begin the fight lower than your opponent. After you fly no icons for awhile you get used to picking the bandit out of the ground clutter. Then you have a very big advantage.

- oldman

[Puma44]

Dawger....great write up and tips on "how to".  If I may, some ideas and philosophy on air combat to compliment what you've provided.

First, we are very fortunate to have a game that very closely emulates the real world.  Only a couple of things are missing.  One is the the third D in 3D (can't wait for some really smart computer geek to come up with 3D computer monitor systems).  The other is the tactile nature of flying real airplanes; the vibration, g loads, extraneous aircraft noises, psychological stress, physical stress, and the ever present thought that "this could be my last day".  With that in mind, my preference is to real world it as close as possible in game.  The no icons feature in AVA is a way to "real world" it even more.  In fact, I would even like for us to do a tour with no icons for friendly or enemy and turn on the friendly kill shooter.  This would provide a taste of how it really was in the day.  Now, I can feel the grumblings of those want to keep the neon "Here I am and how far away I am" signs.  Some have already complained about that in the AVA.  The AVA provides a much needed escape from the MA horde mentality and 5,6,7,8, etc V 1 furballs.  I would suggest that those who want the lower player numbers of the AVA and the icons, try the Early and Mid arenas.  The numbers tend to be low and the icons are there to enjoy.

Second, in the day and in modern air combat the principles are the same.  Mutual support through practiced tactical formation, energy management, speed is life, lose sight-lose fight, suprise, and make the other guy make the first mistake, are all principles that were used back in the day and today.  

Jappa and I have flown tactical formation together for quite a while now, and have found that it becomes second nature, and very effective when we get in the mix. The maneuvering and situational awareness is much easier when, you know where your wingman should be, look there, and he/she is there taking care of business.

Energy management is key and the life blood of ACM.  Lose it and you're a grape hanging on the vine.  Last week someone in a 110 went vertical with another Hurri, with no mutual support, no visual awareness, and ended up outta airspeed and ideas about 200 yards in front of me.  Oh yeah, and, he was belly up to me.  

Visual awareness (neon signs with range-NOT) is vitally important.  In the day, fighter pilots learned aircraft profiles and ranging techniques using the MK1 eyeball and became very good at it.    

Suprise seems to be a little used tactic.  In our current setup, the Hurri and P40 level turn pretty well.  The 109s do great vertical climbs that the others can't keep up with.  So,  the typical scenario is a Hurri or P40 doing level turns and the 109 doing vertical turns with speed advantage.  So, when you do the same maneuver/tactic all the time, you are predictable, and someone will eventually suprise you with something lethal.

Maintaining the visual with a bogey is obviously very important.  In our current setup, some who fly the good level turning rides, use the terrain, trees, and bushes to hide from the opposition.  Having the ground as an additional mutual support wingman is valuable, as the ground always wins an ACM engagement.  Being low and looking up for bandits against the sky(no matter whether it's clear blue or hazy) is an instant advantage. It can also serve as a tactical advantage when the bandit gets impatient, comes down, and has to maneuver mostly level against you, the ground, and hopefully your mutually supporting wingman.

Encouraging the other guy to make the first mistake is always a good thing.  The next step is to capitalize on it.  Whatever the mistake, capitalize, and build on it.  Last week, while flying the Hurri, I got into a tree top turning fight with a 109.  With full flaps, judicious us of rudder and small Hi/Low Yo-Yo's, I was able to keep him at bay across the circle and started to gain angles.  We went around 7 or 8 times and then he chose to roll out and run. The mistake was an aggressive roll reversal and ACM with the ground.

Just a few thoughts and observations.  Take 'em or leave 'em, they're only worth $14.95.  .....and Check Six!  


....and THANKS to Jimson, Ranger, and the rest of the AVA staff for the great improvements in the arena.  

[Dawger]

Dawger....great write up and tips on "how to".  If I may, some ideas and philosophy on air combat to compliment what you've provided.

First, we are very fortunate to have a game that very closely emulates the real world.  Only a couple of things are missing.  One is the the third D in 3D (can't wait for some really smart computer geek to come up with 3D computer monitor systems).  The other is the tactile nature of flying real airplanes; the vibration, g loads, extraneous aircraft noises, psychological stress, physical stress, and the ever present thought that "this could be my last day".  With that in mind, my preference is to real world it as close as possible in game.  The no icons feature in AVA is a way to "real world" it even more.  In fact, I would even like for us to do a tour with no icons for friendly or enemy and turn on the friendly kill shooter.  This would provide a taste of how it really was in the day.  Now, I can feel the grumblings of those want to keep the neon "Here I am and how far away I am" signs.  Some have already complained about that in the AVA.  The AVA provides a much needed escape from the MA horde mentality and 5,6,7,8, etc V 1 furballs.  I would suggest that those who want the lower player numbers of the AVA and the icons, try the Early and Mid arenas.  The numbers tend to be low and the icons are there to enjoy.

Second, in the day and in modern air combat the principles are the same.  Mutual support through practiced tactical formation, energy management, speed is life, lose sight-lose fight, suprise, and make the other guy make the first mistake, are all principles that were used back in the day and today.  

Jappa and I have flown tactical formation together for quite a while now, and have found that it becomes second nature, and very effective when we get in the mix. The maneuvering and situational awareness is much easier when, you know where your wingman should be, look there, and he/she is there taking care of business.

Energy management is key and the life blood of ACM.  Lose it and you're a grape hanging on the vine.  Last week someone in a 110 went vertical with another Hurri, with no mutual support, no visual awareness, and ended up outta airspeed and ideas about 200 yards in front of me.  Oh yeah, and, he was belly up to me.  

Visual awareness (neon signs with range-NOT) is vitally important.  In the day, fighter pilots learned aircraft profiles and ranging techniques using the MK1 eyeball and became very good at it.    

Suprise seems to be a little used tactic.  In our current setup, the Hurri and P40 level turn pretty well.  The 109s do great vertical climbs that the others can't keep up with.  So,  the typical scenario is a Hurri or P40 doing level turns and the 109 doing vertical turns with speed advantage.  So, when you do the same maneuver/tactic all the time, you are predictable, and someone will eventually suprise you with something lethal.

Maintaining the visual with a bogey is obviously very important.  In our current setup, some who fly the good level turning rides, use the terrain, trees, and bushes to hide from the opposition.  Having the ground as an additional mutual support wingman is valuable, as the ground always wins an ACM engagement.  Being low and looking up for bandits against the sky(no matter whether it's clear blue or hazy) is an instant advantage. It can also serve as a tactical advantage when the bandit gets impatient, comes down, and has to maneuver mostly level against you, the ground, and hopefully your mutually supporting wingman.

Encouraging the other guy to make the first mistake is always a good thing.  The next step is to capitalize on it.  Whatever the mistake, capitalize, and build on it.  Last week, while flying the Hurri, I got into a tree top turning fight with a 109.  With full flaps, judicious us of rudder and small Hi/Low Yo-Yo's, I was able to keep him at bay across the circle and started to gain angles.  We went around 7 or 8 times and then he chose to roll out and run. The mistake was an aggressive roll reversal and ACM with the ground.

Just a few thoughts and observations.  Take 'em or leave 'em, they're only worth $14.95.  .....and Check Six!  


....and THANKS to Jimson, Ranger, and the rest of the AVA staff for the great improvements in the arena.  

We did no icons for friendly or enemy back in Warbirds HA and it makes for a beautiful fight and actually improves SA. I find the friendly icons distracting with enemy icons off. The issues that come with no friendly icons are mostly game related. Its hard to tell who your buddies are and you lose some of the easy teamwork offered by neon signs.

I have long lobbied for an improved icon system that account for the shortcomings of personal computers making the fight as realistic as possible but it never gets any traction. An F15 guy I know spent a lot of time thinking through an icon system that accounted for aircraft size, aspect, closure and other variables that would make the icon system much improved but there is zero interest by game developers in spending resources on such a system.

The AvA is on a roll right now and has an opportunity here. A new terrain is bringing traffic. Publishing a schedule that includes popular plane sets and lets people know what will be going on in advance, limiting the GV's to a subordinate role and advertising could get them over the hump.

[TexMurphy]

The great thing about the no icons is the aircraft id issues that arise. In the MA you never see a 109 try to out run a Jug.

Another is that skins actually matter now. Having a good camo helps alot. I totally lost a 109 on the deck. I couldnt see it due to trees, great terrain and good choice of skin.

Tex

[captain1ma]

during one of the midway setups, i shut off both friendly and enemy icons. it was pretty easy to tell who was who except that you couldn't identify exactly who the friendly was. it was a hoot for some of us and for other not so much. we've even tried friendlies down to 1k but that didn't go over very well either.

maybe some day........

as for a published list of events, its been discussed. at this time, with a limited number of CM's for the AVA, its not feasible, due to ever changing rotation and/or filling in.

[Puma44]

Both icons off would make for some interesting flying, not to mention emersion into reality.  What's the min range icons can be set to? Maybe setting the friendly icons down to approximately the range that skin configuration is recognizable would be a good compromise for those who gotta have icons. 

You guys on staff have done a great job rejuvenating the AVA!  Keeping it fresh with new setup configurations makes it fun and challenging.  Perhaps a setup with contrasting aircraft profiles on opposing sides with no icons would be worth consideration down the road.  Contrasting profiles would make friend or foe ID somewhat easier with no icons on either side.

Keep up the great work! We're on a roll!   

[Dawger]

during one of the midway setups, i shut off both friendly and enemy icons. it was pretty easy to tell who was who except that you couldn't identify exactly who the friendly was. it was a hoot for some of us and for other not so much. we've even tried friendlies down to 1k but that didn't go over very well either.

maybe some day........

as for a published list of events, its been discussed. at this time, with a limited number of CM's for the AVA, its not feasible, due to ever changing rotation and/or filling in.

The ever changing rotation is the problem. Decide on a schedule and publish it. Its not like there aren't hundreds of setups to choose from. The reason the AvA doesn't have a schedule is because the AvA staff doesn't want a schedule.

The reasons for that are unknown but I suspect its just to keep the AvA a personal toybox more than anything else.

A schedule would prove me wrong. Make it easy on yourselves. Let the AvA setups run for two weeks. 26 setups and you have a year. I know there are 26 setups in the can, ready to go.


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I once did some testing. I painted a letter on Olive Drab in white paint to match the size of the tail flash on a B-17. The letter (M or W depending on how you held the sign) was identifiable at 1200 feet. That's D400. I think that is a reasonable friendly icon setting for if the goal is approximating real world ID range for friendlies.

I've also done research on human visual acuity. Its actually well defined what the human eye can discern. The science is out there to back up any discussion of appropriate icon settings. What we actually need is an icon system that is off at long distance, on at middle distance and then off again up close. Such a system accounts for the shortcomings of a PC monitor. Additionally, the range trigger for an icon system should be variable based upon aircraft size and viewer aspect to target.

But that isn't going to happen so no enemy icons and D400 friendly would be the best option under current code restrictions if the idea is to approximate real world. If there is interest in lowering the friendly icon range I can present the evidence I have for determining a realistic distance. D400 is solely the B17 tail flash experiment and I have since learned the scientific findings regarding human visual acuity. That number might change using that information.