Penertation tables....

[Nemisis]

Wrongway, I already have a general idea (down to around 400yds) of how close something must be before my shell will do anything worth while. Why would I ask for what I have?

What I'm asking for is something like the speed/climb rate charts to be implemented. If you're a decent tanker, you already know about how close to let something get. But it would be nice to have a difinitive chart, and easy access to it.

Have a list of armor thicknesses" turret front, top, sides, and rear. Upper hull/lower hull front (if applicable), top sides, and rear.

In place of the climb rate chart, give a penetration chart for the gun mounted on the selected tank.

[The Fugitive]

Like I said, HTC isn't going to give up their numbers or sources. You however can spend the time researching the info from all those sources you mentioned on the internet and compile that info into some charts. I know it's much harder than just coming on the boards and saying "give me" but at least you'll have it.

[SmokinLoon]

There was a chart that was posted by Lucshe not all that long ago that showed armor penetration capabilities of the Tiger vs the US 75mm, US 76mm, Cromwell, Churchill, T34/76, T34/85, and IS-122.  It showed both side of which tank had to be in which range to penetrate the armor of the opposing tank.

Even at point blank range, the US 75mm AP could not bust through the Tiger's armor.  I saved it and printed it out for a quick reference.   

[AWwrgwy]

Wrongway, I already have a general idea (down to around 400yds) of how close something must be before my shell will do anything worth while. Why would I ask for what I have?

What I'm asking for is something like the speed/climb rate charts to be implemented. If you're a decent tanker, you already know about how close to let something get. But it would be nice to have a difinitive chart, and easy access to it.

Have a list of armor thicknesses" turret front, top, sides, and rear. Upper hull/lower hull front (if applicable), top sides, and rear.

In place of the climb rate chart, give a penetration chart for the gun mounted on the selected tank.

As I said, where do you think the speed/climb rate charts came from?  I'd be willing to bet that some player took the time to gather the information.  It was accurate and made "official".

Go off line or get help and go to the DA and gather the data yourself.  Feel free to share it.  Do something for yourself.

Personally, I shoot and hope for the best.

 


wrongway

[Ghosth]

^ what he said!

You want something, ok, do the work. Then once its done, pass it on. Contribute!

[Lusche]

As I said, where do you think the speed/climb rate charts came from?  I'd be willing to bet that some player took the time to gather the information.  It was accurate and made "official".

The speed/climb charts in game and on HTC webpage are generated by in game data, they are not compiled by players.
The turn data information (and other stuff) we have  at various places (DocGonzo comparisons, Spatulas software tool), was entirely player made.


I'm currently working on  bomber time to altitude charts, configured for different fuel & loadout combinations, and I'm hoping to have it completed in about a month 

[grumpy37]

Im not sure if even knowing this info will help us out much.  We all know that tanks do things in this game that just did not happen in real life.  I was just in the MA fighting a panzer.  At first i was in the perked T34.  The panzer was up on a hill at a range of just over 1600, I was shooting up at him. I had full view of the tank, not just the frontal portion.  It took a total of 11 hits from me to kill him.  He killed me 2 times one shot kill in the T34, 1 time in the Sherman (was also a 1 shot kill) before i finally got him.  I don't think ive ever had it take more then 1 round to kill me when im in a panzer and I tank a lot and have been for many years. 

[E25280]

The panzer was up on a hill at a range of just over 1600, I was shooting up at him.

So if he is shooting down at you, he is most likely hitting the top deck armor of your tanks, which is thin compared to the front or side hull armor.  Furthermore, gravity will assist his rounds to somewhat compensate for the drag of the air, something your return fire does not benefit from.

In short, while frustrating, it is not necessarily "wrong" and frankly not particularly surprising that a height advantage is, well, and advantage.

[grumpy37]

I understand that 11 direct hits to kill a panzer with the T34/85?  Thats just wrong.  I watched the video and 3 of those hits were direct just bellow the turret.  Gravity or not he should have been dead.  The frustrating this is that it is just a game and have to take it for what it is, just  a game. 

[Nemisis]

Im not sure if even knowing this info will help us out much.  We all know that tanks do things in this game that just did not happen in real life.  I was just in the MA fighting a panzer.  At first i was in the perked T34.  The panzer was up on a hill at a range of just over 1600, I was shooting up at him. I had full view of the tank, not just the frontal portion.  It took a total of 11 hits from me to kill him.  He killed me 2 times one shot kill in the T34, 1 time in the Sherman (was also a 1 shot kill) before i finally got him.  I don't think ive ever had it take more then 1 round to kill me when im in a panzer and I tank a lot and have been for many years. 

These may not help for all, but I seem to be very lucky in the sense that if something would have died IRL, then it usually dies.

Personally I think that a lot of peoples' problems come from waiting too long before moving (gives them a chance to set up ambushes), and being impatient when setting up an ambush. You have to find the right spot, and you have to wait until they are even with you at least. That way they won't see your muzzle flash or the tracer round (is that even accurate btw?)

[grumpy37]

Yeah i agree with that, but you have to admit that the ranges we fight at in the game are well beyond anything in WWII combat so its kinda like comparing apples and oranges.

[E25280]

I understand that 11 direct hits to kill a panzer with the T34/85?  Thats just wrong.  I watched the video and 3 of those hits were direct just bellow the turret.  Gravity or not he should have been dead.  The frustrating this is that it is just a game and have to take it for what it is, just  a game. 

At 1600 yards striking the front hull would not necessarily kill a IV.  It is the thickest part of the IVs armor.

But, as you say, it's a game and the damage model is more complex than 1 hit = 1 kill, so *insert shrug here*.

[SmokinLoon]

OK gents.. I spent about 10 minutes of my day searching for decent gun vs armor penetration tables.  Here is a good quick reference.    



http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/guns/75-mm.asp

EDIT: The gun penetration tables are hidden inside each countries own page.  Just click on the vehicle link, select "guns", and go from there.  Easy peasy.   

[BigKev03]

I agree we need a reference to what HTC is using.  I googled the penetration tables of all guns we have in AH a few months back.  When I went GV'ing I paid particular attention to the range at which I was firing from and at which section of the enemy vehicle I was firing at.  According to the data I had the 88mm of the tiger should have had no problem penetrating the armor of a panzer (panzer in this case).  However, I watch rounds bounce off or when they did hit no kill.  Now I know each shot may not be a kill shot but what I saw in the game as far a penetration was not what the charts I had stated.  I tried this for all vehicles at the time not just the tiger.


BigKev

[Nemisis]

In game, rounds that wouldn't have penetrated still do(T-34/85 w/ standard AP vs tiger at 1800yds). They just cause no damage (or if they do, the ammount is so small as to be irrelivent). This is most likely a player issue, as people would be pissed off if they didn't "get a hit", regardless of wether or not the round would have penertated the target's armor IRL.