Author Topic: New announcement: Radar Settings  (Read 14378 times)

Offline Agent360

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #105 on: June 22, 2010, 09:40:48 PM »
Now you can not sneak in NOE, kill all the FH's, take the base and then go across the map to another base and do the same thing.

Perhaps NOE missions might have to re think in terms of strategy.

You see...now it is not as easy to roll in kill the FH and ruin a fight.

But I don't see the big deal anyway...if you have a massive hord it doesnt matter what alt you come in at.

Offline Agent360

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #106 on: June 22, 2010, 09:55:38 PM »
At the risk of sounding a little foolish, 65 ft does sound a little arbitrary.  Does anyone know if the number has historical relevance?  Imo 100ft would be better.  65 ft, seems almost ludicrous to run a successful NOE at, even at full concentration with perfectly capable cartoon warriors.

65 ft is 15 ft over 50. That means you have to actually be on the deck....50ft is not that hard to do.

This means if you really want to fly NOE all night you will have to take some risk doing it.

Historical....LOL...are you kidding...how many missions ran at 100 feet...NONE...there are documented cases of NOE but with like, 2 or three planes in the desert...

NOE didn't happen until after the 1970's

Our maps are not historically accurate....show me a map that is historically accurate with terrain that depicts France/Europe and then maybe we could discuss what real NOE means....you would have to be a suicide case to NOE into occupied France with German airfields everywhere....you would get slaughtered.


Offline E25280

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #107 on: June 22, 2010, 10:28:52 PM »
Historical....LOL...are you kidding...how many missions ran at 100 feet...NONE...there are documented cases of NOE but with like, 2 or three planes in the desert...

NOE didn't happen until after the 1970's

Umm . . . never heard of Ploesti?
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Offline USRanger

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #108 on: June 22, 2010, 10:30:37 PM »
it's 8ft over CV flightdeck  :D

So, as soon as one plane takes off, the CV is given away. :headscratch:
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Offline Agent360

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #109 on: June 22, 2010, 10:58:02 PM »
Umm . . . never heard of Ploesti?

Actually no. But I did look it up.

And that mission proves my point. NOE missions were extremly rare and extremly dangerous. So now there is proper risk involved.

So if you run an NOE expect to be slaughtered. Otherwise run a real mission with proper fighter cover. But, see this takes too much time. Players would rather run NOE, kill the FH, take the base, and go to the other side of the map leaving GV's to stop a re take.

From this source:
http://www.b17sam.com/ploesti.html

"The formations, somewhat disorganized by the loss of the lead navigator, descended to 500 feet at Pitesti, 65 miles from the targets. Halfway to the initial point where the final turn was to be made into Ploesti, the 376th Group, followed by the 93rd Bombardment Group, made an erroneous turn southeast toward Bucharest. The other bomb groups, the 389th, 98th, and 44th, continued as briefed. When Ent discovered the error, both groups headed back toward Ploesti. The 376th was told to strike targets of opportunity, and the 93rd attacked the original targets from the opposite direction as briefed.

The return flight to Libya was disorganized and under heavy German fighter attack for much of the way. In all, 54 planes were lost, but the bombing destroyed up to 42 percent of Ploesti's cracking capacity. The AAF's 30 percent losses meant that a follow-up mission was not practical, and with no opposition, the Germans were able to repair the facilities rapidly. Five officers received the Medal of Honor for bravery on this mission.
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Offline lyric1

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #110 on: June 22, 2010, 10:58:22 PM »

Historical....LOL...are you kidding...how many missions ran at 100 feet...NONE...there are documented cases of NOE but with like, 2 or three planes in the desert...

NOE didn't happen until after the 1970's

Our maps are not historically accurate....show me a map that is historically accurate with terrain that depicts France/Europe and then maybe we could discuss what real NOE means....you would have to be a suicide case to NOE into occupied France with German airfields everywhere....you would get slaughtered.


:headscratch: Funny  :headscratch: Holland looks a lot wetter than what I thought for a desert environment & there seems to be a lot more than three aircraft.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZzgDkFvHbI

Offline SunBat

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #111 on: June 22, 2010, 10:58:33 PM »
I say that the Win teh Warz guys should be happy that they even have an NOE option anymore the way they have abused it so much over the years.  I say take NOE out all together.  That will end the history debate - which is a silly debate anyway for a game that is far from historical in the MA.  
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Offline Agent360

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #112 on: June 22, 2010, 11:17:14 PM »
:headscratch: Funny  :headscratch: Holland looks a lot wetter than what I thought for a desert environment & there seems to be a lot more than three aircraft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZzgDkFvHbI

Ok you history hounds will probably drag up every obscure NOE raid ever flown. I am not a professor of history but I do know that 95% of all  bomber missions were NOT noe....because it was pure suicide.

The point is if you run NOE then expect to take heavy losses. If there is a reason to go NOE..for a particular strategic base then its worth it.

But if you just want to fly around all night NOE with no opposition...well that now coming to an end.

Perhaps we will actually have some contested fights...mabey even make it more interesting to take bases for all involved.


Online waystin2

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #113 on: June 22, 2010, 11:18:41 PM »
Actually no. But I did look it up.

And that mission proves my point. NOE missions were extremly rare and extremly dangerous. So now there is proper risk involved.

So if you run an NOE expect to be slaughtered. Otherwise run a real mission with proper fighter cover. But, see this takes too much time. Players would rather run NOE, kill the FH, take the base, and go to the other side of the map leaving GV's to stop a re take.

From this source:
http://www.b17sam.com/ploesti.html

"The formations, somewhat disorganized by the loss of the lead navigator, descended to 500 feet at Pitesti, 65 miles from the targets. Halfway to the initial point where the final turn was to be made into Ploesti, the 376th Group, followed by the 93rd Bombardment Group, made an erroneous turn southeast toward Bucharest. The other bomb groups, the 389th, 98th, and 44th, continued as briefed. When Ent discovered the error, both groups headed back toward Ploesti. The 376th was told to strike targets of opportunity, and the 93rd attacked the original targets from the opposite direction as briefed.

The return flight to Libya was disorganized and under heavy German fighter attack for much of the way. In all, 54 planes were lost, but the bombing destroyed up to 42 percent of Ploesti's cracking capacity. The AAF's 30 percent losses meant that a follow-up mission was not practical, and with no opposition, the Germans were able to repair the facilities rapidly. Five officers received the Medal of Honor for bravery on this mission.
"

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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #114 on: June 22, 2010, 11:36:49 PM »
I never fly NOE missions anyway but what I won't like about this is the difficulty in exiting a fight low on fuel, ammo or damaged.  Exiting under DAR was only a 60-40 proposition before... now it will be less than 50%.
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Offline Swoops

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I agree with thndregg
« Reply #115 on: June 22, 2010, 11:39:03 PM »
Quote
Who needs this NOE thing anyway? ;)
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Offline SWrokit

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #116 on: June 23, 2010, 01:19:01 AM »
Send advanced recon in, kill dar.  End of story.

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Offline allaire

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #117 on: June 23, 2010, 02:05:49 AM »
Also send in 2 or 3 formation of heavies to drop the FH and VH.  Everyone else comes in gvs or as normal.
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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #118 on: June 23, 2010, 02:10:15 AM »
Send advanced recon in, kill dar.  End of story.

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That would work only some parts of the time and only if you don't have people watching the map for the red dar that keeps fluctuating up and down when a base is flashing.
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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: New announcement: Radar Settings
« Reply #119 on: June 23, 2010, 02:12:50 AM »
Also send in 2 or 3 formation of heavies to drop the FH and VH.  Everyone else comes in gvs or as normal.
It wont be that easy anymore.  Not saying it cant be done, but now these NOE hordlings will have to depend on those 2 or 3 guys to get the mission successfull.
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