Author Topic: Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?  (Read 1675 times)

Offline Grayarea

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2000, 07:46:00 AM »
I have just updated my machine to

Athlon 1.1Ghz
Abit KT7-RAID + STD heatsink
2x128MB Crucial cas2 RAM (www.crucial.com/uk)
Voodoo 5 5500
SB Live Platinum
2x46.1GB IBM Deskstar in RAID 0

I got all (except RAM) from microdirect in manchester. A box shifting outfit, but the prices were very good and the tech support (when I finally got through) was informed.

A good web site for bios type info is available by going to www.abit.nl>FAQ>KT7_RAID>very  bottom link.

The two ram dimms give better performance than 1 256MB dimm.

You will need to flash your board with the latest Abit rom KT7_UL at the moment. Also download the latest VIA 4in1 driver set.

I had significant stability problems untill I used the bios and 4in1 update.

Now I get 75fps (flying around) and 50+ worst case.

As far as cooling goes I get 49 Celcius under extreme load. About 35-39 after playing AH for a couple of hours.

Well worth the effort.

Grayarea.

Offline Tyro48

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2000, 01:03:00 AM »
at the expense of being obvious and I hope you havent started yet so I hope this isnt brought up to late, be sure before u even get close to opening or moving any electrical gear that you have a well grounded static wrist strap, u can discharge ESD and not even feel it and your cpu, sound card etc. is toast do not underestimate ESD, I have worked in component engineering and have to often seen the results of " I only forgot to put the strap on once"

Offline Dowding

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2000, 12:41:00 PM »
Thanks for all the info, guys. I hadn't checked back here for ages, but I'm glad I did!  

I haven't started building it yet - I am tempted to wait until Abit builds a MB that accepts DDR RAM or AMD brings out its next generation of CPUs (1.4/1.5 GHz).

Then again, whatever I buy will be out of date in 6 months.  

I've downloaded some info from AMD about case design (and you're right Skuzzy, it really is a science   ), so hopefully by next months pay day, I can start making a few purchases.

Thanks again guys, much appreciated.

<edit>

BTW, AMD recommend just having case fans that PULL the air out of the case at the back, and just good sized vents at the front. This coupled with an approved PSU (which pulls air from beneath it and out) should make sure I have no heating problems.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 12-27-2000).]
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Renfield

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2000, 12:05:00 PM »
Wow - didn't know it was so important to type like some minority here now.

A few points - some repeated from good posts above...

Fans *are* important and more is better regardless of what Putz says. More air through the box means a lower temperature in the box. Lower temperature air in the box means a larger temperature gradient across the heatsinks and into the air. Heat flows faster and parts run cooler. Lower temperature parts means fewer errors, lockups, and longer reliable lifetime. All facts - plain and simple.

Matching air in and out of the box is good practice - I wouldn't have all fans facing out unless you have a huge hole somewhere to allow air in. The more air that has to find its way into the box, the more dust that will fall out and screw up your CD-ROM drive, floppy drive, etc.

It's also good practice to plan the airflow. I have exhaust fans at the top and intake fans and holes near the bottom of my case. Since heat tends to rise, the chimney effect just helps cooling be all the more effective.

Attention spent on card placement is also important. Don't sandwich power hungry cards like the hot graphics CPUs between other cards or away from air flows. Also a good idea is to leave a slot cover or two off the backplane area to help let cool outside air in right under the hot cards, over other heat sinks, or near the CPU. You can use other cards to help channel the airflow where you want it.

I've even got two small exhaust fans discreetly mounted to the top outside of my monitor to help get the heat out of that. You can drive away the winter chill on most monitors but the case of mine stays room temperature. I've been doing this for years and have never had a monitor failure.

Cooling is an important issue. Anyone who really has been overclocking and tweaking since he was a child would know that. Properly-channeled forced air cooling is way the heck better than case-open convection. It's just no contest. It's best to throw everything at the problem as the lower the temperature of the parts, the better off you will be and the more reliable your system.

It's also important to make sure there is a proper thermal connection between CPU and heat sink. In the plastic and ceramic package CPU days, it was easy to goop it up with thermal grease. Now there are various thermally-conductive foams and indium foils that are used. Always good to double check that this very important component of cooling is properly in place.

My brother bought a computer that kept locking up and dying on him after it had been on for a while. Turns out some idiot at the shop had been sticking the paper warranty label on the CPU - actually insulating the CPU from the heatsink and creating a dead air space over the rest of the CPU surface.

And it is important to get in and dust occasionally. Lots of air through the box means more dust that will try to plate out on heat sinks, chips and such. Any dust layers dramatically reduce cooling efficiency and need to be cleared out every now and then. I use spray duster to blow the case and power supply out every now and then and it does throw up a cloud.

I've got a few thermistors sprinkled around my box (ASUS motherboard supports multidrop temperature reporting) and my system runs cool. It's also a very reliable system - I am quite sure because of that and in spite of being overclocked.

And Tyro is ever so right! All this hot new hardware is susceptible to static. Always ground frequently and best to not work over carpet or on days where you are constantly throwing static sparks. Wrist straps need to be the actual static dissipation variety with high resistance. (Hooking yourself up to ground with just a wire is bad practice and a quick way to die.)

All of that without a single "dat", "dude", "fat", or "freakin". And I even used paragraphs and punctuation. Wow.

[This message has been edited by Renfield (edited 12-28-2000).]

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2000, 02:51:00 PM »
I didn't build one myself because i had to buy a complete system (so i could pay with my days from work) . I just went to a liitle electronic store. They build the pc on demand
no dell or compaq (still selling with pc100 ram) My ahtlon 1g sits on a Aopen Ak-33 mb
i have a geforce 6800 ddr in it and 256 mb pc133 ram. As far now it works very stable having a average framerate about 50 and 60 flying around (limited by my monitor 60hz)

carriers give me around 35 (take off)

smoke 20

standing inside smoke 6  


Offline W00D

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2000, 01:42:00 PM »
We are airplane buffs here PPL!!!!!!!

so what if you boxs sounds like a flight of P-51s departing, Mine does. As long at it can produce a steady 60 frames per second and doesnt cook any expensive hardware I am one happy mofo.

You can never have too much cooling but opening a case tend to invite bunnies of the dust variety to live in your box  and they do nothing positive to your boxes cooling abilities

Offline Laika

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2001, 02:01:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding:
Probable specs:

Athlon 1.2 T-bird
Abit KT-133 Raid MB
256 Mb 133Mhz RAM
46 Gb UDMA100 HD
Prophet II Pro 64 Mb


Nice system spec's ... not much I can add to the other posts. One note, make sure you get 2X 20G drives rather than 1X 40G other wise you can't use that tasty RAID setup.

As far as extra fans go, don’t go overboard. 1 or 2 case fans are a good idea to keep the air moving on a high end system but adding more is just going to make it noisy. I have a single 120mm case fan running at 7V instead of 12V, still moves lots of air and is quieter than the smaller units running at full speed. This setup in a mid tower case has done well for my overclocking so far (Celeron 300A @ 504, Cel 633 @ 950)  



Offline snafu

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2001, 03:54:00 PM »
Hi All,
 Having noticed that cooling seem to be very high up the list in the must have stakes have you seen this little baby?
 http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q4/001103/vapochill-01.html

Some serious overclocking possible with this one.  

TTFN
snafu

Frosty1

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2001, 04:57:00 PM »
Dowding, I wouldn't suggest forking over the extra cash for the RAID MB over a regular one. Unless you plan on getting another hard drive of equal size or making 2 partitions on both drives equal it would be a waste...but thats just me and I like to save $5 wherever I can.  



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Offline Creamo

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2001, 07:50:00 PM »
One note on the RAID MB worth noting.. the new Athlon is going to have a 266FSB. So consider on getting a MSI K7T Pro 2-A which in fact does support the new 266FSB.

Also, note that the DDR memory supported boards are soon to come out in mass with DDR memory dropping in price weekly.

Offline Dowding

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2001, 05:34:00 PM »
Good point creamo, but here in the UK I doubt that DDR MBs will be here for a while yet.

Athlon 1.2 GHz CPUs are in short supply and we always get things a couple of months after the States.

I think I'm going to wait it out for a month or so and see how the pricing goes. I'd like a 1.4 GHz Athlon too.  
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

MrSiD

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2001, 08:19:00 PM »
Latest test results show that KT133A (note the A) boards are so close to DDR boards in performance that DDR does makes a very bad price/quality ratio machine.. There were absolutely no real benefits in a gaming machine, just a lot higher price.

Secondly, that vapochill box absolutely rocks.. it can freeze ur cpu to -20C and give an awesome overclock. As a nifty addition its whisper quiet.. no noisy fans boomin around your computer room. Only downside is the price.. You get a low-end computer for the price of the case heheh =)

I dont know about you folks, but I absolutely hate the screaming of fast-rpm fans. If I had the $ I'd go for vapochill.
Now I'm stuck with my Cel667@950 (only Titan Majesty GORB cooler btw..) system temp 37-40C at high load. (Running seti@home)

- MrSiD

Offline Dowding

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Buildng my own PC - I have questions - any advice?
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2001, 12:57:00 PM »
That makes interesting reading MrSid. The KT-7A RAID looks pretty good.

I'd go out and buy the setup tomorrow if AMD could supply enough 1.2 GHz processors for the UK market! Most places have been out of stock for a couple of months.

I'd like to wait for the new generation of AMD CPUs, but that looks a fair way off yet.

Thanks for the info.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.