1 perk for m4a3-76?

[Lusche]

This is likely because there are so many more M4's. I'm willing to bet that if there were just as many panzers as M4's, that it would be closer to a 50/50 KTD. I suppose if HTC is willing, we could hold an unofficial test, and have one group of tanks (say 50) up panzers and the other up M4's at a double spawn base. See what the KTD's say.

Guess why there are so many more m4's? Particularly with GV, players tend to select the tank with the best free tank.
Also I don't see the reasoning behind the argument "more M4s = better K/D". Care to explain? (More kills? Yes. But also more deaths.)

And the MA IS an unofficial test. We have a great number of players using both tanks in every possible situation. Both tanks were free, so they were being used in the same way.


And I think you still underrate the MASSIVE significance of having a much higher rate of fire. When two tanks have about the same armor level & gun power, the ROF can be a dominating factor. Most tank fights are  not "first shot kill" ones.

[Nemisis]

Also I don't see the reasoning behind the argument "more M4s = better K/D". Care to explain? (More kills? Yes. But also more deaths.)

Simple, more M4's means that when they DO encounter a panzer, most focus on that because it is a rarity. I've seen it at V85 in the compello map: when a T-34/76 spawns, the other tanks last longer, because the T-34 is drawing the majority of the fire. Not because it is dangerous, but because it is uncommon to see one (well it WAS; they've made a come back).

[Lusche]

Simple, more M4's means that when they DO encounter a panzer, most focus on that because it is a rarity.

Usually fire concentrates on biggest threat.

Also note that the K/D advantage of M4A3(76)W compared to the Panzer is working against ALL tanks.



Se how the (76) does significantly better against every tank.

[wsveum]

It is also who in the 76's and who in the panzer!! There is a lot of factors that go into stats. So you can not just look at stats. I like the 76 and the Firefly because it is harder to see and it has a more accurate gun. But that could be only in my mind.

[E25280]

It is also who in the 76's and who in the panzer!! There is a lot of factors that go into stats. So you can not just look at stats. I like the 76 and the Firefly because it is harder to see and it has a more accurate gun. But that could be only in my mind.

With 32500 deaths for the IV and 51700 for the Sherman, and both being free, it is a stretch to say that any individual player or group of players could be having much of an effect unlike, say, the Tempest or P-38G.

I do think you are correct to a point about the color, but I have to agree with Snailman that rate of fire must be the true tipper.  Speaking for me personally it is exactly the reason I like the 76 over the other tanks.  My aim sucks -- I need the extra shots.   

[speak]

There is only one way to get to the bottom of this.  SCREENSHOT!!!!   Do a GV screenshot from the European theater, maybe nice open fields, no bomb****s.  panzer/tigers vs m4 75/76 and firefly.  Of course the # of tigers and fireflies would be minimal.  Just a thought. 

<S>

Speak.

[Belial]

With the advent of the new m4's I would say the list of gv's from best to worst goes..

Tiger
Sherman Firefly
T34-85 using HVAP you can devastate a Tiger in 1 shot.
M4a3-76 Must be close and hit Tiger perfect.
Panzer, nearly equal to 76 because it can 1shot a Tiger more often.
m4-75
M8
t34-76


But if the mra3-76 deserves a perk price it's because it is modeled wrong and tougher than it should be IMO.

[AWwrgwy]

There is only one way to get to the bottom of this.  SCREENSHOT!!!!   Do a GV screenshot from the European theater, maybe nice open fields, no bomb****s.  panzer/tigers vs m4 75/76 and firefly.  Of course the # of tigers and fireflies would be minimal.  Just a thought. 

<S>

Speak.

No really a screenshot:

With the advent of the new m4's I would say the list of gv's from best to worst goes..

Tiger
Sherman Firefly
T34-85 using HVAP you can devastate a Tiger in 1 shot.
M4a3-76 Must be close and hit Tiger perfect.
Panzer, nearly equal to 76 because it can 1shot a Tiger more often.
m4-75
M8
t34-76


But if the mra3-76 deserves a perk price it's because it is modeled wrong and tougher than it should be IMO.

RE: M4A3-76

From:http://socyberty.com/military/m4-sherman-firepower/

The first to actually receive the tank with the new armament was, ironically, the Soviet Union who found them satisfactory. Hero of the Soviet Union, Dmitri Loza, writes in his book Commanding the Red Army’s Sherman Tanks how they performed well on the Eastern Front. Soviet testing against two captured Pz.Kpfw VI Ausf. B “Royal Tiger” tanks showed that the 76-mm M1 could penetrate the Royal Tigers’ side plates at distances 1.5 to 2 times greater than the native Soviet 85-mm gun which became the armament for the famous T-34-85 tank.

wrongway

[speak]

No really a screenshot:

(Image removed from quote.)

I meant snapshot.......good thing i only have 2 1/2 weeks left to keep embarrassing myself here. 

<S>



RE: M4A3-76

From:http://socyberty.com/military/m4-sherman-firepower/



wrongway

[KG45]

as a dedicated GVer, Lusche is correct in pointing out the higher RoF as an appealing feature of the M4-76 (and 75).

the ability to quickly re-aim and fire before your opponent can mean the difference between wining and losing an engagement. the turrets also have a nice rate of traverse to bring quickly bring the gun to bear on ther target.

[Nemisis]

With the advent of the new m4's I would say the list of gv's from best to worst goes..

Tiger
Sherman Firefly
T34-85 using HVAP you can devastate a Tiger in 1 shot.
M4a3-76 Must be close and hit Tiger perfect.
Panzer, nearly equal to 76 because it can 1shot a Tiger more often.
m4-75
M8
t34-76


But if the mra3-76 deserves a perk price it's because it is modeled wrong and tougher than it should be IMO.

First of, the T-34/76 is above the M4, due to its speed, and the fact that his has HVAP.

M8 is at the bottom of the pile, because, while its fast, any sort of cannon will just chew it up. Even a wirb can cause problems for it.

And its an M4A3(76)W. Its not supposed to light up as easy as the M4A3(75). The W stands for "wet storage", which means the ammunition is less likely to explode in the event of a shell hit.

[SmokinLoon]

Ther are numerous sources that point out that at distances longer than 1000m (think "12" on your gun range finder), the HVAP projectiles fired by both the 76mm and 85mm T-34's are less effective than the standard AP round.  The HVAP ammo, especially in the T34x vs Tiger, is a non issue for most of the battles since ranges are usually 1200 yards +.

BTW...  you might want to explain how to read your chart, Loosh.  I'd e willing to bet many are not uderstanding just hom to interpret what the numbers mean.   

[SmokinLoon]

With the advent of the new m4's I would say the list of gv's from best to worst goes..

Tiger
Sherman Firefly
T34-85 using HVAP you can devastate a Tiger in 1 shot.
M4a3-76 Must be close and hit Tiger perfect.
Panzer, nearly equal to 76 because it can 1shot a Tiger more often.
m4-75
M8
t34-76


But if the mra3-76 deserves a perk price it's because it is modeled wrong and tougher than it should be IMO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if one compares the actual AP penetration charts of the tanks to the in game performance, I'd say they are closer to the real deal than what people give them credit for.  I'd take the M4A3W 76mm over the T34/85mm vs a Tiger any day.  The superior AP round (a nod goes to the T34/85mm HVAP within 1000m), faster reload, and faster turret traverse all lend me to getting more critical hits on that Tiger than if I was in the T34/85.  The only advantage the T34/85mm has over the M4A3/76 is the faster speed to menouver to a flanking shot.  But, any decent Tiger driver will pivot the entire Tiger to keep the front pointed at the T-34/85mm.

It is difficult to place any tank at the top unconditionally.  Each tank has an achillies heel that is often over-looked.  1v1, the Tiger has the best chance of being king of the hill.  However, if you are rescueing squad mates, or running to cover a map room from a distance spawn, the need for speed grows and the T34x and M8 vault to the top of the list.

[Nemisis]

Loon, you do know that the T-34's have the fastest turret travers in the game?


And it depends on if they have the base defended or are just barely holding and trying to get an M3 to the map room before they get kicked off the base. In the first case, you will want the Tiger, especially if they have a firefly or a Tiger of their own.

You would usually be correct though, that the M8 and T-34 would be the better choice though, as they rarely think of anything past camping the hanger, and guarding from the base.

[SmokinLoon]

Loon, you do know that the T-34's have the fastest turret travers in the game?


And it depends on if they have the base defended or are just barely holding and trying to get an M3 to the map room before they get kicked off the base. In the first case, you will want the Tiger, especially if they have a firefly or a Tiger of their own.

You would usually be correct though, that the M8 and T-34 would be the better choice though, as they rarely think of anything past camping the hanger, and guarding from the base.

You're correct, my mistake.  I didn't dig into that set of details (turret traverse rates) like I should have.