E-Fighting

[Plawranc]

As all of you guys know I am not exactly new and have been here a really long time, and I would consider myself in at least the top 100 of people who Fly AH.

But recently in 1v1's I am being beaten by people with about 9 months flying experience because they are using a tactic that I have never been able to master. Somehow or other people flying Spits are able to keep their energy while fighting by entering this kind of flat turn. I do not know how this works and can someone please help me out.

Would really appreciate it.

[grizz441]

You referred to this as "E fighting" yet you then generically described the maneuver as a 'flat turn' which is not E fighting.  Additional details are needed or film.  Otherwise only guesses and speculation can be offered...

As a general rule of thumb, if you don't have the E to follow a bandit up, it is usually always better to break off away from him, and gain separation before initiating a low yo-yo reversal attempt.  Better than sitting there flopping your wings as he comes down on top of you and blasts you out of the sky.

[Soulyss]

Any chance there's some film we could take a look at?

[Ack-Ack]

Sounds like the other person is doing a shallow Low Yo-Yo to gain some extra energy at the merge to follow you up in the vertical.

ack-ack

[caldera]

As all of you guys know I am not exactly new and have been here a really long time, and I would consider myself in at least the top 100 of people who Fly AH.

Please dispense with your ego whacking in the help section, thank you. 

If you've been here such a long time you should know that the flat turn lufbery is what most spit drivers use when they get in trouble.  It's tough to get out of, so don't follow the turn if things are getting slow.

As a general rule of thumb, if you don't have the E to follow a bandit up, it is usually always better to break off away from him, and gain separation before initiating a low yo-yo reversal attempt.  Better than sitting there flopping your wings as he comes down on top of you and blasts you out of the sky.

Top 100. 

[pervert]

As all of you guys know I am not exactly new and have been here a really long time, and I would consider myself in at least the top 100 of people who Fly AH.

But recently in 1v1's I am being beaten by people with about 9 months flying experience because they are using a tactic that I have never been able to master. Somehow or other people flying Spits are able to keep their energy while fighting by entering this kind of flat turn. I do not know how this works and can someone please help me out.

Would really appreciate it.

Maybe these guys who are beating you are in the top 99 of aces high   You have to send HTC cash to move up the rankings

[Ghastly]

Pacman, I took a look at your score and stats - and I don't see a large number of death's to Spitfire's.  Do you mean 1v1 as in duels in the DA, or do you mean 1v1 as in "flying in the MA and chance on another Spit"?

If it's the DA, then I'd ask the pilot who's killing you how he did it - and of course, film it and view it from both sides.

If it's the MA, then personally, I wonder if what may be happening is that you are good enough that losing to another pilot in what is obviously is your plane is a bit of shock.   Some of the better pilots are good at hiding their energy, and making it appear as though they aren't nearly as fast as they are - are they doing a climbing spiral as you engage? 

And of course, filming it and viewing it works in the MA too.

<S>

[JunkyII]

Looks like someone in the top 100 has gotten ze pwn laid on them.

[Masherbrum]

As all of you guys know I am not exactly new and have been here a really long time, and I would consider myself in at least the top 100 of people who Fly AH.

But recently in 1v1's I am being beaten by people with about 9 months flying experience because they are using a tactic that I have never been able to master. Somehow or other people flying Spits are able to keep their energy while fighting by entering this kind of flat turn. I do not know how this works and can someone please help me out.

Would really appreciate it.

 

[Ack-Ack]

Looks like someone in the top 100 has gotten ze pwn laid on them.

and by a 9 month n00b in a Spitfire using a simple low yo you on the merge.  Maybe proclaiming to be "One of the Top 100 Experten pilots in AH" was a tad overly optimistic by the OP.


ack-ack

[humble]

Without film its all speculation however here is my "best guess"

If we go back a ways the standard dueling merge was basically the "rocketman" dive for the weeds merge..

Out of that came what I call the "rudder slap" (as DMF then, leviathon last I knew) used to give me the beat down with back when I was a trainer and we were fooling around. Over the last few years as dueling continues to evolve as a separate skill set the need to better disguise your lead turn has led to a flatter out of plane response to the "classic" rocketman merge. Your not getting "out E'd" your getting beat at angles with an out of plane lead turn that couples a dive and zoom....in effect he's coming into the merge slower and a bit higher using a low yoyo (which to you is "flat") that lets him set his angles early and then unload the airframe and zoom up in pursuit.

This is actually very similar to the typical "he turned around at 450 and climbed up tail the haxxor" when the reality is no he had some alt and position and performed a vertical lead turn and zoomed up into you.

When you see what I always called the Creton merge you need to quickly decide one of the following

1) rotate 45 degree's away from his turn and unload the airframe in a best climb, this is the safe counter that forces him to go the long way (270 degree's) and maximizes your time to evaluate relative E state...but you are conceding he somehow got angles so your now converting to an E fight but may or may not actually be +E

2) completely dirty up, rudder skid and chop looking to keep a skidding flat turn into him from the over position. Here your aggressively attacking what is more then likely an accelerating merge. Your going for an immediate win or die rolling scissors taking the middle game out of the fight. It's over one way or the other in 20 seconds or less.

3) Break away but mirror and cirlce back setting up a two circle merge (figure 8) where your managing front aspect intersection. This sets up a type of fight that a lot of players don't see a lot and not only provides an opportunity for the one fight but in a "best of" duel can take your opponent completely out of his favorite merge if you beat him the 1st time...

[TonyJoey]

Sounds alot like Badboy style E fighting. He gains very large E advantages just by flat-turning a specific way, a way I've yet to come close to mastering. While some may think the style is lame, it is very effective if utilised correctly, and must be respected.

[StokesAk]

Keyword is Spits,

They hold E, had one do a 180 and catch my 262 at 400mph, that wasnt fun. What I do with spits is draw them up into a climbing circle trying to get them to stall out under you, works best with an F4U.

[Ghastly]

Keyword is Spits,

They hold E, had one do a 180 and catch my 262 at 400mph, that wasnt fun. What I do with spits is draw them up into a climbing circle trying to get them to stall out under you, works best with an F4U.

A climbing lufberry F4U vs Spit? That makes no sense to me - anything newer than the Spit V has a something close to 1000 fpm climb rate advantage - if not 2000 or more.  Unless you have way more E than he does (or unless maybe you mean you do this when you're in the -4???) and can end the fight in less than 60 seconds, he's going to pretty quickly even up E states and then catch you as try to break off.

Do you have a film of how you do this I could watch?
<S>

[Sonicblu]

Here is how I do it.

If the con (p51) is diving on you. You break into a flat turn with nose down just a bit. At this point it has to do with gaining E and Not letting the other guy get the shot. Do not try for gun solution.

As he begins to fire you barrel rolls under his nose in the blind spot. Just enough to make him miss.

As the 51 is going over the top or reversing you want then turn back into him. Closing the distance that he is using to build up e. turn only hard enough to get back into a new merge. Think in terms of losing less e than him. that is how you are gaining it. After a few flat turns with nose down you will start to equal e states