Author Topic: Bomb blast radius?  (Read 8430 times)

Offline Nemisis

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2010, 02:56:35 PM »
We have the exact length of a tank, and so you could convert the radius at which it will kill a building into 'tank lengths'. I agree that this wouldn't be some great tool that changes bombing in AH, but it may prove usefull in setting delays in bombers.
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Offline Wagger

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2010, 05:19:07 PM »
Well the way I understand it is that the small bombs have small blast radius and as the bombs get bigger the blast radius grows exponentially.  i.e. little bomb little blast.  Big bomb big blast. :x

Offline Larry

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2010, 07:10:12 PM »
I have no idea but I know I killed 3 flakkers with one 1800kg bomb in a Stuka once.....then I LMAO all the way back to base.    :lol

I remember getting 18 GV kills when I dropped the 4k bombs from a set of lancs right when a ports VH popped. Best moment Iv ever had in AH. I just wish I could find the screen shot.  :(
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Offline Nemisis

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2010, 09:29:38 PM »
lol, too bad you didn't drop 2 bombs from a 110C. Fighter perks are actually worth something.
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Offline 2Slow

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2010, 11:36:38 PM »
... which begs the question: if you have no way of reliably measuring it, how is knowing the exact distances in yards going to help?

It is I who was looking for the information.  I do have a reliable method of measurements.  For example, if one wants to know the measurements of a base hanger it takes some math (excel spreadsheet) and some recon.  Fly the length of the bases main runway (or any runway).  Go to bombsight, note e6b true speed and time the travel from one end to the other.  Then do the math.  For example, at 257mph one is moving 376.93 feet per second.  Multiply this by the timed transit over the runway length.  Now one knows how long the runway is.  Print out the base map.  Measure the runway in mm.  Divide the runway length by the mm measurement.  Now one has feet per mm.  Measure the hanger with the ruler in mm.  Do the math again.  Multiply the hanger measurement in mm by the feet per mm.  Now you have the size of the hanger.
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Offline HatTrick

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2010, 12:27:07 AM »
It is I who was looking for the information.  I do have a reliable method of measurements.  For example, if one wants to know the measurements of a base hanger it takes some math (excel spreadsheet) and some recon.  Fly the length of the bases main runway (or any runway).  Go to bombsight, note e6b true speed and time the travel from one end to the other.  Then do the math.  For example, at 257mph one is moving 376.93 feet per second.  Multiply this by the timed transit over the runway length.  Now one knows how long the runway is.  Print out the base map.  Measure the runway in mm.  Divide the runway length by the mm measurement.  Now one has feet per mm.  Measure the hanger with the ruler in mm.  Do the math again.  Multiply the hanger measurement in mm by the feet per mm.  Now you have the size of the hanger.

You have too much time on your hands sir!

Offline Larry

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2010, 05:13:20 AM »
lol, too bad you didn't drop 2 bombs from a 110C. Fighter perks are actually worth something.

Bomber perks are worth a lot when you love flying the Ar234 as much as I do.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2010, 08:47:16 AM »
It is I who was looking for the information.  I do have a reliable method of measurements.  For example, if one wants to know the measurements of a base hanger it takes some math (excel spreadsheet) and some recon.  Fly the length of the bases main runway (or any runway).  Go to bombsight, note e6b true speed and time the travel from one end to the other.  Then do the math.  For example, at 257mph one is moving 376.93 feet per second.  Multiply this by the timed transit over the runway length.  Now one knows how long the runway is.  Print out the base map.  Measure the runway in mm.  Divide the runway length by the mm measurement.  Now one has feet per mm.  Measure the hanger with the ruler in mm.  Do the math again.  Multiply the hanger measurement in mm by the feet per mm.  Now you have the size of the hanger.

Yikes!  :O



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Offline 2Slow

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2010, 09:19:17 AM »
You have too much time on your hands sir!

Perhaps indeed. 

My goal has been to conduct air raids in the same fashion as the Mighty 8th did in the real deal.  Air Raid = 1 pass over target, one salvo.  I think of it as bombing for effect and not for score.  With old town, I and two others, could reduce the town to 90+% destroyed.  With the new town, I and two others, can reduce the town to the same degree as we did with the old town.  Just a bit more challenging. :)

Thus my question in regards to ordnance blast radius effect on town buildings.  One can then plan bomb runs better.
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Offline tf15pin

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2010, 11:35:47 AM »
An exponential decay is y~e^-x rather than y~1/x^2. If you use an inverse square law to model blast damage you will have infinite bomb damage at zero radius (the whole dividing by zero thing).

For this case let our damage function be D(r)=D0 e^[-c r]: where D is the damage at radius r, D0 is the damage at radius 0 (the max damage of the bomb), c is some coefficient of decay that we have to determine from dropping a bomb and fitting the curve to our observations, and r is the radius.

The first thing that has to be done is to determine c. To do this we will take a 1000 lb bomb and drop it near something that takes a known amount of damage to destroy (town building = 250lbs if I remember right). So we make the drop and find that the maximum distance a 1000 lb bomb can land and take out a building is 100'. We now have all we need to know! We throw some algebra at it to give us c = -1/r Ln[D/D0], plug in the numbers, c =  -1/100 Ln[250/1000] = 7.21*10^-3 (1/ft). Then we plug our new found c into our general formula and have a function of damage at a given radius for 1000 lb bombs. If things are modeled consistently in the game this function will hold for all bomb types. So for this example we would have
Damage = Bomb weight e^[(7.21*10^-3) r].  

I made a nice plot of the function but I cant figure out how to post and image on here so the function and Idea will have to stand alone.

REMEMBER THIS IS AN EXAMPLE AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO MAKE A MEASUREMENT SO THE CURVE CAN BE PROPERLY FIT. So you just need a known bomb weight destroying an object of known hardness at a known maximum distance and then it can be fit.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 11:39:08 AM by tf15pin »

Offline HatTrick

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2010, 11:51:24 AM »
Perhaps indeed. 

My goal has been to conduct air raids in the same fashion as the Mighty 8th did in the real deal.


You're gonna need a whole lot more planes :P

j/k, I get what you're saying.  Bombing is more of a hobby to me than my main focus so it seems overly complicated to get into all that minutiae but if bombing is your thing, go for it.


Offline Fox

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2010, 12:24:22 PM »
Ordtech-industries shows the following specs for modern general purpose bombs on their website:

                      pressure at 50 ft          pressure at 100 ft              armor penetration (distance not given)
Mk 82, 500lb          17 psi                          5 psi                                32 mm
Mk 83, 1000lb        26 psi                          8 psi                                46 mm
Mk 84, 2000lb        35 psi                          11 psi                               51 mm

I have not located any information like this for WWII bombs yet.

http://www.ordtech-industries.com/2products/Bomb_General/Bomb_General.html
                   

Offline tf15pin

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2010, 12:57:21 PM »
An exponential decay is y~e^-x rather than y~1/x^2. If you use an inverse square law to model blast damage you will have infinite bomb damage at zero radius (the whole dividing by zero thing).

For this case let our damage function be D(r)=D0 e^[-c r]: where D is the damage at radius r, D0 is the damage at radius 0 (the max damage of the bomb), c is some coefficient of decay that we have to determine from dropping a bomb and fitting the curve to our observations, and r is the radius.

The first thing that has to be done is to determine c. To do this we will take a 1000 lb bomb and drop it near something that takes a known amount of damage to destroy (town building = 250lbs if I remember right). So we make the drop and find that the maximum distance a 1000 lb bomb can land and take out a building is 100'. We now have all we need to know! We throw some algebra at it to give us c = -1/r Ln[D/D0], plug in the numbers, c =  -1/100 Ln[250/1000] = 7.21*10^-3 (1/ft). Then we plug our new found c into our general formula and have a function of damage at a given radius for 1000 lb bombs. If things are modeled consistently in the game this function will hold for all bomb types. So for this example we would have
Damage = Bomb weight e^[(7.21*10^-3) r].  

I made a nice plot of the function but I cant figure out how to post and image on here so the function and Idea will have to stand alone.

REMEMBER THIS IS AN EXAMPLE AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO MAKE A MEASUREMENT SO THE CURVE CAN BE PROPERLY FIT. So you just need a known bomb weight destroying an object of known hardness at a known maximum distance and then it can be fit.



An easy way to do this would be to drop a single 1000 lb bomb in the middle of the high building density area of a town. Fly back over and take a screen shot of the damage with something of known length in the frame (a tank as suggested earlier). Then the tank can be used as a scale and the radius at which a 1000lb bomb's damage decays to the 250 lb damage level by measuring the distance at which the last town building is destroyed.

Offline Gianlupo

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2010, 01:27:17 PM »
It is I who was looking for the information.  I do have a reliable method of measurements.  For example, if one wants to know the measurements of a base hanger it takes some math (excel spreadsheet) and some recon.  Fly the length of the bases main runway (or any runway).  Go to bombsight, note e6b true speed and time the travel from one end to the other.  Then do the math.  For example, at 257mph one is moving 376.93 feet per second.  Multiply this by the timed transit over the runway length.  Now one knows how long the runway is.  Print out the base map.  Measure the runway in mm.  Divide the runway length by the mm measurement.  Now one has feet per mm.  Measure the hanger with the ruler in mm.  Do the math again.  Multiply the hanger measurement in mm by the feet per mm.  Now you have the size of the hanger.

How can you know if the map is in correct scale? It might not be, I always thought it's just a way of locating the various buildings, I don't think it's in scale. Anyone knows about it?
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Offline 2Slow

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Re: Bomb blast radius?
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2010, 01:43:53 PM »
How can you know if the map is in correct scale? It might not be, I always thought it's just a way of locating the various buildings, I don't think it's in scale. Anyone knows about it?

Based on my work and results, it is scale.
2Slow
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