Author Topic: For all you P-38 Drivers.  (Read 4038 times)

Offline beau32

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For all you P-38 Drivers.
« on: September 06, 2010, 02:49:51 PM »
http://jamesreese.org/hangarflying/

Lockheed produced a series of newsletters called Hangar Flying filled with tips and humorous cartoons. These are about the P-38.



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Offline MachFly

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 08:42:59 PM »
I like this one



Something we all need to learn in AH
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 09:22:09 PM »
For some reason I like this one. :)

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Offline HatTrick

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 09:28:01 PM »
I like this one

(Image removed from quote.)

Something we all need to learn in AH

Funny you say that.  Several years ago, I was corresponding with a gent who had flown the P-51 in the war.  I was curious about aspects of the plane, particularly the war emergency power method that it used.  I was playing Fighter Ace at the time and in FA, the WEP on most US planes would 'recharge'.  If you turned it off for a period of time, you would basically get a new timer on it.  

I asked the gentleman if that was how it actually worked on the P-51.  He said there was no injection system like some planes had on the P-51.  He said that basically you could do what was called 'breaking the wire'.  He told me that the throttle had a small wire at the 100% setting but with enough pressure on the throttle you could break the wire and go past 100% to like 110% throttle.  He then told me that they were told to do this only in the most dire situations because 1) it would overheat the engine in about 2 minutes time and 2) anytime someone did do it, that plane had to be taken out of service until the engine could be thoroughly inspected for damage.  

I thought that was pretty ironic seeing how people use the hell out of WEP in these games.  The only games I've seen where overuse of WEP will get you into trouble are IL-2 and Wings of Prey.  Running WEP in those games causes overheat pretty quickly.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 10:04:23 PM »
As a 38G flyer, I have never used wep, not even once! :)
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 12:10:07 PM »
As a 38G flyer, I have never used wep, not even once! :)

You've never had a running engine stay attached to a plane long enough to burn it up or wear it out, either.  :devil
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Offline Wolfala

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 12:44:59 PM »
Funny you say that.  Several years ago, I was corresponding with a gent who had flown the P-51 in the war.  I was curious about aspects of the plane, particularly the war emergency power method that it used.  I was playing Fighter Ace at the time and in FA, the WEP on most US planes would 'recharge'.  If you turned it off for a period of time, you would basically get a new timer on it.  

I asked the gentleman if that was how it actually worked on the P-51.  He said there was no injection system like some planes had on the P-51.  He said that basically you could do what was called 'breaking the wire'.  He told me that the throttle had a small wire at the 100% setting but with enough pressure on the throttle you could break the wire and go past 100% to like 110% throttle.  He then told me that they were told to do this only in the most dire situations because 1) it would overheat the engine in about 2 minutes time and 2) anytime someone did do it, that plane had to be taken out of service until the engine could be thoroughly inspected for damage.  

I thought that was pretty ironic seeing how people use the hell out of WEP in these games.  The only games I've seen where overuse of WEP will get you into trouble are IL-2 and Wings of Prey.  Running WEP in those games causes overheat pretty quickly.

See this thread as it happened to my aircraft:  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,241456.0.html



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Offline Brooke

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2010, 01:41:40 AM »
As a 38G flyer, I have never used wep, not even once! :)

Nah, it is his extreme self control and iron will.

Offline Ex-jazz

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2010, 01:08:36 PM »
Wow!

Thank you for the link.

There are some very artistic drawings. This is my favorite in terms of drawing style, story & set-up.
http://jamesreese.org/hangarflying/images/S_i8p5i1.jpg

Offline cactuskooler

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2010, 01:26:10 PM »
I think there are a couple more issues that this guy is missing. They're wonderful though.

Reminds me of some virtual pilots I know.
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Offline OOZ662

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2010, 11:32:24 PM »
I'm curious about what these fillets near the cockpit are that apparently heavily affected the stall characteristics of the aircraft. Anyone happen to have an image of them?
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Offline Brooke

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2010, 03:00:35 AM »
I'm curious about what these fillets near the cockpit are that apparently heavily affected the stall characteristics of the aircraft. Anyone happen to have an image of them?

I think that they were put in to correct severe tail buffetting that was otherwise generated by turbultent flow from the junction between the wings and the fuselage.  They were on all P-38's from D's on forward, I think -- if so, they'll be in just about any P-38 pic.

Offline OOZ662

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2010, 03:09:11 AM »
Ahh, it's the smoothing junction between the wing and fuselage. I thought it would be some sort of vertical projection out of the top of the wing. Kinda scary that they were "peeling off" like that.

Image
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2010, 05:44:17 AM »
I think that they were put in to correct severe tail buffetting that was otherwise generated by turbultent flow from the junction between the wings and the fuselage.  They were on all P-38's from D's on forward, I think -- if so, they'll be in just about any P-38 pic.

I think the word you are searching for is 'parasite' since most of the flow this airplane ever saw (99.9%) was turbulent and only about 2-3mm was ever laminar beyond the stagnation point. I have said before... the tail buffeting of the P-38 was brought on by inadequate tail boom stiffening.

Maybe thats why 38 pilots need viagra at an early age.   :D
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Offline Brooke

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Re: For all you P-38 Drivers.
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2010, 02:45:08 PM »
"Parasite" isn't the word I was looking for.  The flow over surfaces is indeed turbulent -- the entire plane's surface was not designed to produce and could not produce laminar flow.  No WWII airplane did that.  Even laminar-flow wings on the likes of the P-51 probably didn't produce laminar flow once you factor in design variation, surface roughness, dirt, etc., and even if they did, they didn't produce laminar flow over the whole airframe.   Also, just because there is a non-laminar layer of flow does not mean that huge increases in turbulence off a junction can't cause problems.

The tail buffetting that the wing fillet eliminated was not due to inadequate tail stiffening according to the following.

"Wind tunnel tests at Cal Tech established that tail flutter was the result of turbulent airflow created by the sharp juncture at wing and fuselage, and it was eliminated by a wing fillet that smoothed out the airflow over the tail."  From American Aviation, by Christy and Cook, and you can see the excerpt here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=E6yzMq7Z-yIC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=p-38+wing+fillet&source=bl&ots=lLWgRD_uDN&sig=yYV4Ff__D6DJeLVdQinv-gLdSy0&hl=en&ei=gNiLTMLFHo6msQOzuYCIBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCUQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=p-38%20wing%20fillet&f=false

Other references saying the same:

The Lockheed P-38 Lightning, by Bodie.  The marvelous and definitive book on all aspects of the P-38.
http://www.amazon.com/Lockheed-P-38-Lightning-Warren-Bodie/dp/0962935956/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284234200&sr=8-1

http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/p38_lightning.htm

http://www.aviation-history.com/lockheed/p38.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-38_Lightning