Author Topic: AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"  (Read 922 times)

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« on: August 29, 2001, 07:55:00 PM »
From Tom's:

 http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010829/news-02.html

This is bizarre.  It seems to be a bad idea for many reasons... confusion, miscommunication, and downright admitting that Intel sets the standard by wich they will now measure themselves.

Very wierd.

AKDejaVu

Offline Jochen

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 188
      • http://www.jannousiainen.net
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2001, 07:54:00 AM »
I think Intel used almost identical system in '90's? Was it bad idea then?

Yesterday I pruchased AMD Thunderbird 1400/266. I have always used Intel processors until now but P4 1800 that is able to somewhat compete with fastest AMD was far more expensive  :(

Maybe if there would be inexpensive P4 motherboard with SDRAM and DDR SDRAM supporting chipset, I would consider P4 seriously. RAMBUS mem is just too expensive.
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2001, 08:52:00 AM »
I'm selling my mobo, cpu, gpu and memory-cards to my friend 'cause I've already got 1,4Ghz/A7M266 waiting for me in a shop. With a reasonable price  :)

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2001, 08:54:00 AM »
Quote
I think Intel used almost identical system in '90's? Was it bad idea then?

Please explain.  I was here (at Intel) for most of the 90's and don't recall them every using anything but x86/Pentium and clockspeed (with a dx or sx).

And.. its not the P4-1800... Its the P-4 1.8GHz.  The Thunderbird is not the 1400, it is the 1.4GHz.  You're already confusing the issue.

AKDejaVu

Offline Jochen

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 188
      • http://www.jannousiainen.net
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2001, 09:06:00 AM »
Quote
Please explain. I was here (at Intel) for most of the 90's and don't recall them every using anything but x86/Pentium and clockspeed (with a dx or sx).

I distinctly remember Intel ads in many PC magazines at time when Pentium came out. They rated they processors by some abstract rating which was got from some test program.

They did not use it to name their processors but I think the rating was marked to processor. This was to help customers understand that Pentium running at 66 MHz is faster than 486 running at 80 or 100 MHz.

I think this is almost as same as what AMD is doing soon?

 
Quote
And.. its not the P4-1800... Its the P-4 1.8GHz. The Thunderbird is not the 1400, it is the 1.4GHz. You're already confusing the issue.

Oh sorry. As engineer I don't always remember that there are people less gifted in field of physics.   :(

Let me explain. The four numbers in processor marking I used mean Megahertz. If you divide it by thousand you get Gigahertz ie. the units you used. Those numbers tell at what clock rate the processor is running.

Processor running at higher clock speed is not neccessarily faster. For example AMD TB 1400/266 is faster than P4-1400 in almost any application.

It is simple as that!

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Jochen ]
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2001, 01:14:00 PM »
I've got one word for this new naming scheme.  Retarded.


SOB

-edit- This is a thread about naming conventions, and it only serves to confuse things when you start calling chips by something other than their official designation.  It is the P4, 1.8GHz.  Typical engineer, heavy on data and knowledge, light on common sense!   :D  :p

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: SOB ]
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2001, 02:50:00 PM »
Quote
I distinctly remember Intel ads in many PC magazines at time when Pentium came out. They rated they processors by some abstract rating which was got from some test program.

They showed their processors performance in a benchmark.. they did not name their processor after that bench score.  A pentium has always been named using its clockspeed.

 
Quote
They did not use it to name their processors but I think the rating was marked to processor.

The rating was not marked on their processor... unless it was somehow incorperated into the part number.  The processor was never marketed using that rating in its name.

 
Quote
Oh sorry. As engineer I don't always remember that there are people less gifted in field of physics. :(

 :rolleyes:

I tried to toot my own horn once, but I couldn't reach.  It must have had something to do with my failure to comprehend the laws of physics.

 
Quote
Let me explain. The four numbers in processor marking I used mean Megahertz.

Ah... but that is not the case with AMD's new naming convention.  An Athlon4 1400 could be running at 1.1 GHz.  Do you understand the difference now?

 
Quote
If you divide it by thousand you get Gigahertz ie. the units you used. Those numbers tell at what clock rate the processor is running.

With Intel this is true, with AMD it won't be for long.

AKDejaVu

Offline capt. apathy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4240
      • http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/moviewavs.cgi?Bandits=danger.wav
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2001, 03:51:00 PM »
Seems to me AMD is unnecessarily confusing the issue if I was AMD and my processors where faster at the same MHz (I’m no expert but from what I hear this seems to be the case)
I' put the true clock speed on the processor and advertise the hell out of the fact that my chip was faster or pick a model number/name that is not so misleadingly close to a MHz designation that way nobody could accuse you of doing anything shady

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]

Offline bloom25

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1675
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2001, 04:52:00 PM »
There are two sides to this issue as I see it:

To the average consumer shopping for a PC clock speed alone is considered to be a valid measure of performance.  This is of course wrong.  Due to the design of the P4 with its "hyper pipeline" ( 20 stage pipeline) enabling it to hit high clock speeds, but reducing performance per clock versus the Athlon's conventional 11 stage pipeline AMD is going to have a hard time competing clock for clock.  This means that even though the Athlon greatly outperforms the P4 at the same clockspeed only the educated computer buyer knows that.  AMD has thus (at least according to this article) decided to borrow a page from the old Cyrix playbook and bring back the PR rating.  I can see the reasoning behind it, but truthfully I think it's a bad idea.  My main objection is the choice of benchmark(s) used to obtain the PR rating.  Now if what Tom says is true that a 1400 = PR1600 then the benchmark is very conservative.  In office and FPU engineering type situations the 1400 will beat even a 2 GHz P4 pretty handily.  If the benchmark is Quake 3 then the Athlon 1400 only is the equal of about a 1.5 P4.  Now remember that the Palomino includes a  prefetch unit, which accounts for much of the P4s dominance in Q3, so the gap will narrow there and widen elsewhere.

The part that makes me angry is the AMD requirement that the true clockspeed not be shown anywhere - this is wrong.  That's how Cyrix got themselves in trouble.

Intel, though never using the PR rating themselves, does play marketing games like this though.  Examples being the SX vs DX, the original Celeron (A) vs P2 performance, and "netburst, hyperpipelining" etc.

Offline Jochen

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 188
      • http://www.jannousiainen.net
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2001, 01:11:00 AM »
Quote
They showed their processors performance in a benchmark.. they did not name their processor after that bench score. A pentium has always been named using its clockspeed.

But the whole idea used had similar purpose that of AMD is starting to use, try to inform customers that clock speed isn't they key to performance. Pentium running in lower clockspeed than 486 was faster as is Athlon agaisnt P4.

 
Quote
I tried to toot my own horn once, but I couldn't reach. It must have had something to do with my failure to comprehend the laws of physics.

I'm sorry to hear that  :(
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2001, 09:18:00 AM »
Jochen, I know what the purpose of it is.

I'm saying that selling a 1.1 GHz Athlon as a "Athlon 1500" and hiding the clockspeed of the processor is a bad move.

And Bloom... people may not have liked the SX/DX aspect of the 486... but they were getting exactly what they were paying for... even if the MCP was disabled.  And don't confuse "downplay" with "mislable".

Both companies have used advertising to their advantage.  That is the norm.  This goes beyond advertising... bordering on misrepresentation.  I seriously think we should get a pool together to see when the first lawsuit appears as a result of this.

AKDejaVu

Offline bloom25

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1675
AMD to change the way they name processor "Models"
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2001, 04:44:00 PM »
I consider "netburst" to be mislabeling and the term "hyper pipeline" to be deceptive.  Really what this amounts to though is AMD attempting to improve the market position of its processors.  Because of the design of the P4, which enables high clockspeeds at some expense to performance per clock, I can see why AMD made the decision.  (Or at least is thinking about doing so, the news article does not say for certain.) Personally I don't like it either though DejaVu.  I wouldn't place that bet with you, if AMD does in fact go through with it.  ;)