Performing the rope

[Tordon22]

Just a quick addition to the other things is a pretty basic timing move that I started out using. (timing when to come back down)

If you've judged the E states correctly, you know he'll be stalling out before you do, or at the same time but much lower. So I watch my own speed and around 120 or so start pulling over the top and back down on him. Start pulling just before your own stall and you should be in pretty good position for a shot. Remember this is a really basic strategy and you'll quickly see how you can build on it. Mostly it's visual and you'll want to start pulling around quickly as you can when you see his nose start to fall away to either side.

[Agent360]

The way I see it there are two basic kinds of ropes.

1. pure verticle E rope where you come in at 400+ on bandits lower than you...zoom around flat so the bandit turns on you then go vert until they hang on the prop...you cut throttle some at top and tork over nose down...take the shot.

2. Angle rope where you are not so fast but have some energy to spare. This is basically the opening move to vert rolling scissors...if you pull it off correctly on the first vert rollover you will get the shot first as the bandit passes under your plane. If you miss you will be in guns for the bandit on the next scissor...if this happens then you pull early up creating an overshoot and drop in with flaps. You will now be in rolling scissors....each time you take your plane up and try to eeeekk out more energy at the top...as the scissor progresses you will be getting shots on the down side of the scissor...if the bandit makes a mistake and stalls you will find yourself shooting at his canopy and he stalls the plane while pulling too hard to go nose up for the vert turn.

I call it an angle rope because your not really doing a classic rope like in #1, you are instead using angles by pinching your turn at the top tighter and getting guns on the bandit below you. The bandit cant pull up into you becuase he must pass level to gain the energy to go back up and make his turn.

[Agent360]

You might find this thread helpful

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272726.0.html

[grizz441]

The way I see it there are two basic kinds of ropes.

1. pure verticle E rope where you come in at 400+ on bandits lower than you...zoom around flat so the bandit turns on you then go vert until they hang on the prop...you cut throttle some at top and tork over nose down...take the shot.

2. Angle rope where you are not so fast but have some energy to spare. This is basically the opening move to vert rolling scissors...if you pull it off correctly on the first vert rollover you will get the shot first as the bandit passes under your plane. If you miss you will be in guns for the bandit on the next scissor...if this happens then you pull early up creating an overshoot and drop in with flaps. You will now be in rolling scissors....each time you take your plane up and try to eeeekk out more energy at the top...as the scissor progresses you will be getting shots on the down side of the scissor...if the bandit makes a mistake and stalls you will find yourself shooting at his canopy and he stalls the plane while pulling too hard to go nose up for the vert turn.

I call it an angle rope because your not really doing a classic rope like in #1, you are instead using angles by pinching your turn at the top tighter and getting guns on the bandit below you. The bandit cant pull up into you becuase he must pass level to gain the energy to go back up and make his turn.

I agree with all of this except cutting throttle at the top of the rope.  If you have more E than him, you need to just simply come down at the correct time when he is stalling out, which is mutually exclusive with burning E nose up.  There really is no benefit to cutting throttle while nosing up in this particular case, however if you end up chasing him downward due to a mistimed rope, cutting throttle may suddenly become a more viable option.

I'd also like to add that, when you are roping and you know you have plenty of E, it is a nice touch to initiate a vertical turn/high yo/yo(terminology) above your bandit as he tracks you with his nose up.  I would also advice you to do this in the direction opposite of your bandit's torque.  This is a nice strategy because you are essentially baiting the bandit into pursuing you and roping himself out while also keeping him within a quick maneuver away if he does happen to pull out of the trap you are setting.

When you get a good feel for these kinds of things, you can basically be creative and play games above him and flip your nose over for gun solution right when he is stalling out for an easy kill.

[321BAR]

one thing to watch out for is overshooting an enemy that is a turnfighter. if you try and pull up and you are going to slow, then you are officially dead by rights.

that and some turnfighters such as the zero (did this many times) can roll out of your attack and corkscrew onto your six very quickly to kill you. Like i said, before i became a crazy P51B pilot i flew the zero all the time. zeros, hurris, spits, all of these can pull a quick move on you if you overshoot and especially if you try to rope them after the overshoot. watch your back in these cases...

sometimes its just better to avoid the rope here and just dive out and try to gain E while they try and follow. if they follow then maybe youll actually get the chance to rope them in the near future. <S>

[Agent360]

I agree with all of this except cutting throttle at the top of the rope.  If you have more E than him, you need to just simply come down at the correct time when he is stalling out, which is mutually exclusive with burning E nose up.  There really is no benefit to cutting throttle while nosing up in this particular case, however if you end up chasing him downward due to a mistimed rope, cutting throttle may suddenly become a more viable option.

I'd also like to add that, when you are roping and you know you have plenty of E, it is a nice touch to initiate a vertical turn/high yo/yo(terminology) above your bandit as he tracks you with his nose up.  I would also advice you to do this in the direction opposite of your bandit's torque.  This is a nice strategy because you are essentially baiting the bandit into pursuing you and roping himself out while also keeping him within a quick maneuver away if he does happen to pull out of the trap you are setting.

When you get a good feel for these kinds of things, you can basically be creative and play games above him and flip your nose over for gun solution right when he is stalling out for an easy kill.

The cutting throttle refers to excessive energy at the top. Often in rope #1...well in a k4 anyway the plane will just pure out climb the poor bandit and you will end up 1k away before you drop...the bandit has flopped way earlier and now the seperation is so great that you must chase him down to the deck.

Yes, you will burn off energy like this but thats the point...to get a correctly timed tight reversal at the top, dropping the nose right onto the flopping bandit.

If you dont cut it like this then you are not roping only timing for a nose down slash back through the slower dropping bandits headed for the deck and getting a cross shot as the try to break out of the way.

Slower less e planes like zeeks, p40's, etc will drop out wayyyy sooner than a k4 will stop going up...so with these planes reducing seperation at the top is essential...now with planes like 190's, spits etc they can follow you up and you may not want to cut until you drop onto them...just depends on the e situation.

Its just a matter of how you want to make the kill on the rope.

[mtnman]

The cutting throttle refers to excessive energy at the top. Often in rope #1...well in a k4 anyway the plane will just pure out climb the poor bandit and you will end up 1k away before you drop...the bandit has flopped way earlier and now the seperation is so great that you must chase him down to the deck.

Yes, you will burn off energy like this but thats the point...to get a correctly timed tight reversal at the top, dropping the nose right onto the flopping bandit.

This is precisely why I use the technique I outlined in the "fake rope" thread. 

I'll "fake" being roped (by doing little L/R roll movements, letting my nose drop while watching the guy "roping" me, and finally roll over onto my back and pull down a little) while I'm still well above stall speed (200ish) if I know I can't climb with the other guy.

Once I get my nose down again (still well above flying speed) I roll back right-side up, and pull up to allow my opponent to dive past (and spoil his shot), and then lock onto his six.

I'm counting on my opponent to do precisely what you've outlined above...

[maddafinga]

This is precisely why I use the technique I outlined in the "fake rope" thread. 

I'll "fake" being roped (by doing little L/R roll movements, letting my nose drop while watching the guy "roping" me, and finally roll over onto my back and pull down a little) while I'm still well above stall speed (200ish) if I know I can't climb with the other guy.

Once I get my nose down again (still well above flying speed) I roll back right-side up, and pull up to allow my opponent to dive past (and spoil his shot), and then lock onto his six.

I'm counting on my opponent to do precisely what you've outlined above...

I do that too!  Sometimes they just don't bite, either they didn't see because I wasn't telegraphing it enough, or they weren't watching me carefully.  I love when it works though, sweet kill right there.

[Agent360]

This is precisely why I use the technique I outlined in the "fake rope" thread.  

I'll "fake" being roped (by doing little L/R roll movements, letting my nose drop while watching the guy "roping" me, and finally roll over onto my back and pull down a little) while I'm still well above stall speed (200ish) if I know I can't climb with the other guy.

Once I get my nose down again (still well above flying speed) I roll back right-side up, and pull up to allow my opponent to dive past (and spoil his shot), and then lock onto his six.

I'm counting on my opponent to do precisely what you've outlined above...

Ahhh the "fake rope" thread....that one sure got a discussion going...lolol

Yes, Mtnman that is a nice trick and I do this as well especially against spits...its a great snapshot with taters.

It is kinda of like a backwards vertical reverse...ie you create the over shoot vertically by faking a flop, get a snap shot as the bandit passes nose down and you drop in behind the 3-9 line and either catch them or set up some angles for crossing shots.

Another fancy variation is to initate a standard vertical climbing rope and pull into a vertical barrel roll then, cut throttle/reduce throttle and gently push into a neg G barrel roll the opposite direction.....bandit goes right by vertically and flops above you....falls nose low into your sights....as you hold level and follow nose down.

I understand that cutting throttle in high angle vert rope attempt is risky. I guess it boils down to the combat area threat level. A standard rope without cutting throttle will leave you with more options...ie more alt to regain lost e and a higher position after a kill. On the other hand if your not in a multi threat situation a slick rudder reversal to point blank guns is always satisfying.

I am more into stall moves and close reversals...this does tend to result in mistakes that get me killed, but I just cant resist a good ole jack hammer tater move.

[Scotch]

Another fancy variation is to initate a standard vertical climbing rope and pull into a vertical barrel roll then, cut throttle/reduce throttle and gently push into a neg G barrel roll the opposite direction.....bandit goes right by vertically and flops above you....falls nose low into your sights....as you hold level and follow nose down.

I can't view films currently, but I believe this film demonstrates that maneuver or something vary similar, as I may roll from inverted rather than using neg g. Though I could be wrong as I haven't been able to view it in a year. The film is older and originally to give an example of 30mm dud, so I don't know if it plays on current ah film viewer, but hopefully works as an example.

http://dasmuppets.com/public/Scotch/SPITTATER.ahf   (right click, save as)

[Qrsu]

I can't view films currently, but I believe this film demonstrates that maneuver or something vary similar, as I may roll from inverted rather than using neg g. Though I could be wrong as I haven't been able to view it in a year. The film is older and originally to give an example of 30mm dud, so I don't know if it plays on current ah film viewer, but hopefully works as an example.

http://dasmuppets.com/public/Scotch/SPITTATER.ahf   (right click, save as)

Just confirming that it does indeed work.

[ink]

I would add, make sure your plane has good vertical climb...P-38...KI-84....spit... I like to go inverted as I am climbing to keep a good eye on the nme,and it allows quick reversals.
   as many have said understanding yours and your nme's E-state is one of the most important aspects of roping someone, learning the hammerhead is a good idea, allows for very fast reversals at the top.

you wont get the better sticks to fall for the rope though, most often not anyways.


I think the KI-84 is one of the best planes for this tactic.

[grizz441]

The cutting throttle refers to excessive energy at the top. Often in rope #1...well in a k4 anyway the plane will just pure out climb the poor bandit and you will end up 1k away before you drop...the bandit has flopped way earlier and now the seperation is so great that you must chase him down to the deck.

Yes, you will burn off energy like this but thats the point...to get a correctly timed tight reversal at the top, dropping the nose right onto the flopping bandit.

If you dont cut it like this then you are not roping only timing for a nose down slash back through the slower dropping bandits headed for the deck and getting a cross shot as the try to break out of the way.

Slower less e planes like zeeks, p40's, etc will drop out wayyyy sooner than a k4 will stop going up...so with these planes reducing seperation at the top is essential...now with planes like 190's, spits etc they can follow you up and you may not want to cut until you drop onto them...just depends on the e situation.

Its just a matter of how you want to make the kill on the rope.

Oh ok I hear you.  My preference is to spiral turn/circle my rope prey to bleed off the E and bait him in but your way would work well too.

[FLOTSOM]

was practicing both Agent's and Grizz's tactics today in the DA against both members of the FEW and the Muppet's, everyone of them ended badly very badly for me

but i did manage to get the over shoots and the opponent stalls as they predicted. it was my lack of prediction targeting and tracking skillz that failed me not the format laid out by either of these 2 great sticks.

my most common mistake was to lose sight of the red guy while doing barrel roll type climbing maneuvers. once i lost sight of my opponent i no longer knew if my rope was working, so i had to lay over to reacquire viz on my target thus i would lose the advantage the rope was giving me. sometimes putting myself broadside directly in front of his guns.

although i didnt kill any of them i feel it was a productive and educational afternoon. <S> and thanks guys for letting me be your target!!!

[ink]

was practicing both Agent's and Grizz's tactics today in the DA against both members of the FEW and the Muppet's, everyone of them ended badly very badly for me

but i did manage to get the over shoots and the opponent stalls as they predicted. it was my lack of prediction targeting and tracking skillz that failed me not the format laid out by either of these 2 great sticks.

my most common mistake was to lose sight of the red guy while doing barrel roll type climbing maneuvers. once i lost sight of my opponent i no longer knew if my rope was working, so i had to lay over to reacquire viz on my target thus i would lose the advantage the rope was giving me. sometimes putting myself broadside directly in front of his guns.

although i didnt kill any of them i feel it was a productive and educational afternoon. <S> and thanks guys for letting me be your target!!!

you do make great.... bait...chum....miss ya bro